The bus transfer

[Charles Collins]

You repeated them as if they were gospel. I merely successfully [apparently] refuted them.

I merely successfully [apparently] refuted them.

Only in your own mind, wouldn't you agree?

[Jerry Freeman]

I merely successfully [apparently] refuted them.

Only in your own mind, wouldn't you agree?

I suppose yeah...one of us has one and that would be me.

[Charles Collins]

I merely successfully [apparently] refuted them.I suppose yeah...one of us has one and that would be me.

If you do indeed “have one”, I suggest that you might want to learn how to use it. At the beginning of that chapter David Belin states that: “Oswald is dead, and no one can prove why he did what he did. But a person can speculate.” Belin then goes on to speculate why he believes Oswald did some things, including where Belin thought Oswald was headed when he encountered Tippit.

On the other hand, you state the following:

Evidence is non-existent [as usual] with your hypothetical tales.
If Oswald was on the run to Mexico he would not have wasted time meandering all over Oak Cliff.
He would have not left all his money with Marina.
He would have gone directly to the Trailways/Greyhound station some 4 or 5 blocks from the TSBD and boarded the first bus out of town headed south.
So try it again with gusto señor.

It is stated as if you think that you “know” what Oswald would have done. But really you don’t know those things, now do you? They are only speculations and they only reflect your thinking, and have nothing at all to do with reality.

[John Mytton]

LUCY YOU GOT SOME "SPLAINING TO DO!!

Indeed you do, how about we look at the actual eyewitnesses who encountered the murdering Oswald.

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. V DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in that room?
Mrs. B DAVIS. Yes, sir. I recognized number 2.

Mr. CALLAWAY. No. And he said, "We want to be sure, we want to try to wrap him up real tight on killing this officer. We think he is the same one that shot the President. But if we can wrap him up tight on killing this officer, we have got him." So they brought four men in.
I stepped to the back of the room, so I could kind of see him from the same distance which I had seen him before. And when he came out, I knew him.
Mr. BALL. You mean he looked like the same man?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. GUINYARD. I was looking--trying to see and after I heard the third shot, then Oswald came through on Patton running---came right through the yard in front of the big white house---there's a big two-story white house---there's two of them there and he come through the one right on the corner of Patton.

Mr. LIEBELER. Let me show you some pictures that we have here. I show you a picture that has been marked Garner Exhibit No. 1 and ask you if that is the man that you saw going down the street on the 22d of November as you have already told us.
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Four? Did any one of the people look anything like strike that. Did you identify anyone in the lineup?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I identified the one we are talking about, Oswald. I identified him.

RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.
 
Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

The eyewitnesses who confirmed he was carrying a gun.

Mr. BALL. Which way?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.


Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. And how was he holding the gun?
Mr. CALLAWAY. We used to say in the Marine Corps in a raised pistol position.

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?

Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good.

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line.

Mr. BELIN. Did he have anything in his hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had a pistol in his left hand.

Jack Tatum
Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street.

The Police Officers who were confronted with killer Oswald.

Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. When you saw Oswald's hand by his belt, which hand did you see then?
Mr. WALKER. He had ahold of the handle of it.
Mr. BELIN. Handle of what?
Mr. WALKER. The revolver.
Mr. BELIN. Was there a revolver there?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; there was.

Mr. HUTSON. McDonald was at this time simultaneously trying to hold this person's right hand. Somehow this person moved his right hand to his waist, and I saw a revolver come out, and McDonald was holding on to it with his right hand, and this gun was waving up toward the back of the seat like this.

Oswald even admitted carrying his revolver.

Mr. STERN - Was he asked whether he was carrying a pistol at the time he was in the Texas Theatre?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Yes; that was brought up. He admitted that he was carrying a pistol at the time he was arrested.

Mr. McCLOY. Was it a sharpshooter's or a marksman's? There are two different types, you know.
Mr. HOSTY. I believe it was a sharpshooter, sir. He then told Captain Fritz that he had been living at 1026 North Beckley, that is in Dallas, Tex., at 1026 North Beckley under the name O. H. Lee and not under his true name.
Oswald admitted that he was present in the Texas School Book Depository Building on the 22d of November 1963, where he had been employed since the 15th of October. Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was a laborer in this building and had access to the entire building. It had offices on the first and second floors with storage on third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors.
Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22d of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.
He was asked why he left the School Book Depository that day, and he stated that in all the confusion he was certain that there would be no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset, there was too much confusion, so he just decided that there would be no work for the rest of the day and so he went home. He got on a bus and went home. He went to his residence on North Beckley, changed his clothes, and then went to a movie.
Captain Fritz asked him if he always carried a pistol when he went to the movie, and he said he carried it because he felt like it. He admitted that he did have a pistol on him at the time of his arrest, in this theatre, in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas. He further admitted that he had resisted arrest and had received a bump and a cut as a result of his resisting of arrest. He then denied that he had killed Officer Tippit or President Kennedy.

Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.

JohnM

[John Mytton]

You don't empty shells out of an automatic.

 

Yes, excellent point!

Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. In other words, he didn't go all the way on the sidewalk. He just cut across the yard.
Mr. BELIN - Where was he when you saw him throwing shells? Had he already started across the yard?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir. He had just got back to the sidewalk when he threw the first one and when he threw the second one, he had already cut back into the yard. He just sort of cut across.
Mr. BELIN - Now you saw him throw two shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You saw where he threw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you later go back in that area and try and find the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. Well, right after that I went back and I knew exactly where they was at, and I went over and picked up one in my hand, not thinking and I dropped it, that maybe they want fingerprints off it, so I took out an empty pack of cigarettes I had and picked them up with a little stick and put them in this cigarette package; a chrome looking shell.
Mr. BELIN - A chrome looking shell?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - About how long did it take you to locate the shells once you stared looking for them?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Just a minute. I mean not very long at all. Just walked directly to them.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And he was emptying it?
Mrs. DAVIS. It was open and he had his hands cocked like he was emptying it.

JohnM

[Bill Brown]

In addition, DPD officer Roger Craig wrote Weisberg that the Tippit shooting occurred at 1:05 pm.

Cue the b.s. Nutter catterwalling in 3-2-1...

Apparently you're unaware that Roger Craig is a proven liar.

In 1968, during an interview (along with Penn Jones) with the L.A. Free Press, Roger Craig was asked about the Tippit shooting.  Craig told the interviewer that the shooting occurred at 1:45.
Jones immediately corrected Craig, informing him that the shooting occurred around 1:15.  Craig responded with "Oh?  Is that right? Okay." (or words to that effect, I'm going by memory) 
The bottom line is, in 1968, Craig obviously had no idea what time the Tippit shooting occurred.

Then years later, in the early 70's when writing his manuscript, Craig tells the story of being in Dealey Plaza and hearing of the shooting of the police officer in Oak Cliff.  In the scenario, Craig supposedly looks at his watch and notes that it said the time was 1:06.

Move on from Roger Craig, already.

[Mitch Todd]

We already know from many of your past posts you engage in "selective memory" so spare us the B.S.

Whatever you may think of Bill's memory, he's right about what Craig said. This is the section of the LAFP interview:

FP: Do you know what time he was killed?

RC: It was about 1:40—

PJ: No, I think It was a little before 1:15.

RC: Was it?

That isn't the only reference to the time of the murder:

FP: How did you become aware of the Tippit killing? Where were you?

RC: I was in front of the Depository. I went upstairs with the first bunch, and then just a little bit later I was back downstairs. They sent me to get some lights to examine the dark corners. And I passed a patrol car on the street and heard the radio.

Compare this to what he would write a few years later in When They Kill a President:

At that exact moment [when Craig claimed that Weitzman identified the rifle as a Mauser] an unknown Dallas police officer came running up the stairs and advised Capt. Fritz that a Dallas policeman had been shot in the Oak Cliff area. I instinctively looked at my watch. The time was 1:06 p.m. A token force of uniformed officers was left to keep the sixth floor secure and Fritz, Day, Boone, Mooney, Weitzman and I left the building.

So, which of Craig's stories is the right one? They can't both be true. The LFP one? The later WTKaP one? Or maybe neither? The world wonders!

[Mitch Todd]

OK I guess I am just a TERRIBLE judge of character. Shame on me for believing that Roger Craig!

So who else described timing of the events of the day?

Mrs. Frank Wright called in the shooting at 1:07 p.m. (so the shooting was no later than 1:06 pm)

T.F. Bowley used Tippit's radio to call in the shooting at 1:09 p.m.

Also it is well documented that the ambulance arrived by 1:15 p.m.

The timeline does not work to get LHO from standing at the bus stop near his rooming house to the murder scene a mile away in a couple minutes and do the dirty deed in that time as well.

Well, you seem to be a terrible judge of most things. Mrs Wright never said what that she called. The DPD radio dispatcher doesn't mention her address, 501 E 10th, until after 1:19. Bowley's radio call doesn't occur until right about the tip of 1:18. Given Callaway's testimony, the ambulance arrives about 1:20. What do you use for sources, or do you just make it up as you go alaong?