The Patsy

[Dan O'meara]

Sure.  All it takes to get there would be to demonstrate that Oswald was deeply involved in the events of that day.

Great point John.
To be honest, it's an assumption I'm making that I link to him being a patsy. It's never crossed my mind to consider Oswald a completely innocent bystander and I can see that is an assumption that has just crept into my thinking.

In this thread I've presented an argument that the evidence relating to who the man on the 6th floor was just before, during and after the assassination, points away from Oswald.

Can we start from this point - that the shooter was not Oswald?

[Mike Orr]

With LHO being given the " We have to make the people believe that Oswald was a lone assassin " tag from J. Edgar Hoover & Nicholas Katzenbach then it became clear that the wheels of injustice were starting to turn at a high rate of speed . LHO said he was a " Patsy " and there are many who believe just that ! The chain of evidence never existed in the murder of JFK .

[John Iacoletti]

Great point John.
To be honest, it's an assumption I'm making that I link to him being a patsy. It's never crossed my mind to consider Oswald a completely innocent bystander and I can see that is an assumption that has just crept into my thinking.

In this thread I've presented an argument that the evidence relating to who the man on the 6th floor was just before, during and after the assassination, points away from Oswald.

Can we start from this point - that the shooter was not Oswald?

Yes! The rational approach is to start with the null hypothesis until conclusive evidence demonstrates otherwise.

[Walt Cakebread]

Great point John.
To be honest, it's an assumption I'm making that I link to him being a patsy. It's never crossed my mind to consider Oswald a completely innocent bystander and I can see that is an assumption that has just crept into my thinking.

In this thread I've presented an argument that the evidence relating to who the man on the 6th floor was just before, during and after the assassination, points away from Oswald.

Can we start from this point - that the shooter was not Oswald?

  the shooter was not Oswald?

Captain Fritz:---  Where were you when the president went by the book depository? ( time 12:30)

Lee Oswald--- I was eating my lunch in the first floor lunchroom.

Lee told Fritz that he saw two fellow employees walk by the 1st floor lunchroom as he was eating his lunch. James Jarman and Harold Norman verified Lee's statement.... They swore that they had in fact walked by the 1st floor lunchroom just a couple of minute before the motorcade arrived.    Jarman said that after walking by the 1st floor lunchroom and taking the west elevator to the 5th floor they arrived on the 5th flor at 12:28.   Therefore Lee Oswald must have seen Jarman and Norman walk by the lunchroom at 12:26....  He couldn't have been on the sixth floor at 12:30....

[Zeon Mason]

The only reason for Oswald to have named Norman and Jarman would be that the time must have been 12:25 or later and the place being the drowns floor. This gives Oswald a plausible alibi.

Oswald MAY have seen Carolyn Arnold at 12:15 but maybe he did not name her because it did not provide an adequate alibi. In fact it would be of no help for Oswald to mention seeing ANYONE from 12:00-12:20.

There is an official recorded statement from Carolyn Arnold of seeing Oswald in the front lobby ground floor at 12:25 while she was out front of the TSBD on the sidewalk by Elm st.

Imo this statement is NOT a contrived FBI record since it  provides Oswald a very strong alibi.which is contrary to the Hoover directive and the LBJ pressure that Oswald must be  “our man”

IF Oswald said he was “out front”  to watch the P.parade, per the Hosty recorded notes, then it’s even more improbable that some FBI agent would fabricate a Carolyn Arnold sighting of Oswald at 12:25 on the ground floor front lobby..

Therefore the timeline is as follows:

12:15 - Oswald gets a coke from the 2nd floor lunchroom machine. He is sighted here by Carolyn Arnold. Oswald does not name Arnold as a witness to Fritz as it does not provide him an alibi

12:20 Oswald is in the Domino room alone.

12:23-Oswald sees Norman passing by the Domino room. Oswald names them specifically to Fritz because of the time being late enough to establish a plausible alibi for Oswald.

12:25 Oswald had moved to the front lobby and looking out the glass partition. Carolyn Arnold seeds Oswald AGAIN.

12:29 Oswald moves out to the front landing (with unfinished coke in hand) and selects the only available spot to stand on the crowded top landing which is the west corner.

12:30: Oswald is captured in the Weigman film raising a coke bottle to his mouth as he stands in the ‘em west corner in shadow.

12::30:05-12:31:30, Oswald supposedly has an encounter with Baker and Truly somewhere between the front entrance door to the 4th floor given the  various versions of Baker notes, affidavits , newspaper accounts and WC statements.

[Walt Cakebread]

The only reason for Oswald to have named Norman and Jarman would be that the time must have been 12:25 or later and the place being the drowns floor. This gives Oswald a plausible alibi.

Oswald MAY have seen Carolyn Arnold at 12:15 but maybe he did not name her because it did not provide an adequate alibi. In fact it would be of no help for Oswald to mention seeing ANYONE from 12:00-12:20.

There is an official recorded statement from Carolyn Arnold of seeing Oswald in the front lobby ground floor at 12:25 while she was out front of the TSBD on the sidewalk by Elm st.

Imo this statement is NOT a contrived FBI record since it  provides Oswald a very strong alibi.which is contrary to the Hoover directive and the LBJ pressure that Oswald must be  “our man”

IF Oswald said he was “out front”  to watch the P.parade, per the Hosty recorded notes, then it’s even more improbable that some FBI agent would fabricate a Carolyn Arnold sighting of Oswald at 12:25 on the ground floor front lobby..

Therefore the timeline is as follows:

12:15 - Oswald gets a coke from the 2nd floor lunchroom machine. He is sighted here by Carolyn Arnold. Oswald does not name Arnold as a witness to Fritz as it does not provide him an alibi

12:20 Oswald is in the Domino room alone.

12:23-Oswald sees Norman passing by the Domino room. Oswald names them specifically to Fritz because of the time being late enough to establish a plausible alibi for Oswald.

12:25 Oswald had moved to the front lobby and looking out the glass partition. Carolyn Arnold seeds Oswald AGAIN.

12:29 Oswald moves out to the front landing (with unfinished coke in hand) and selects the only available spot to stand on the crowded top landing which is the west corner.

12:30: Oswald is captured in the Weigman film raising a coke bottle to his mouth as he stands in the ‘em west corner in shadow.

12::30:05-12:31:30, Oswald supposedly has an encounter with Baker and Truly somewhere between the front entrance door to the 4th floor given the  various versions of Baker notes, affidavits , newspaper accounts and WC statements.

The only reason for Oswald to have named Norman and Jarman would be that the time must have been 12:25 or later and the place being the drowns floor. This gives Oswald a plausible alibi.

Lee didn't "name" Jarman and Norman.....  He didn't know their names.  He did know that the two colored men were fellow employees there at the TSBD. And he knew that the  older one was called "junior, and the younger one was a short statured man.

That information was enough for the investigators to track down Junior Jarman and Harold Norman and question them.  Both Jarman and Norman confirmed that they had in fact walked by the 1st floor lunch room at about 12:26 / 12:27. 

Lee Oswald was NOT  on the sixth floor at the time the motorcade past by the TSBD......BUT there was someone there behind that sixth floor window at circa 12:15 /  12: 25 , because spectators on the street saw that person.

[Walt Cakebread]

The only reason for Oswald to have named Norman and Jarman would be that the time must have been 12:25 or later and the place being the drowns floor. This gives Oswald a plausible alibi.

Lee didn't "name" Jarman and Norman.....  He didn't know their names.  He did know that the two colored men were fellow employees there at the TSBD. And he knew that the  older one was called "junior, and the younger one was a short statured man.

That information was enough for the investigators to track down Junior Jarman and Harold Norman and question them.  Both Jarman and Norman confirmed that they had in fact walked by the 1st floor lunch room at about 12:26 / 12:27. 

Lee Oswald was NOT  on the sixth floor at the time the motorcade past by the TSBD......BUT there was someone there behind that sixth floor window at circa 12:15 /  12: 25 , because spectators on the street saw that person.

Lee didn't "name" Jarman and Norman.....  He didn't know their names.  He did know that the two colored men were fellow employees there at the TSBD. And he knew that the  older one was called "junior," and the younger one was a short statured man.

That information was enough for the investigators to track down Junior Jarman and Harold Norman and question them.  Both Jarman and Norman confirmed that they had in fact walked by the 1st floor lunch room at about 12:26 / 12:27. 

Lee Oswald was NOT  on the sixth floor at the time the motorcade past by the TSBD......

This alibi is a FACT is probably the piece of information that sealed Lee Oswald's doom.     Had this information been presented in a trial no jury in the world would have convicted Lee Oswald.

[Jake Maxwell]

I suppose if we were to put this “case to bed”...

1) It would be helpful to begin investigating the corruption of J. Edgar Hoover...
2) From there it would be helpful to take a “jury's and judge’s” view of Hoover’s plan stated in his memo to convince the public of Oswald’s guilt as a lone assassin... within 48 hours of the assassination...
3) From there we would need to give consideration, as Jefferson Morley contends, that the CIA is still lying to the public about the amount of information they had collected on Oswald... (SEE C-SPAN interview at 9:10 & 18:00 https://www.c-span.org/video/?516751-3/washington-journal-jefferson-morley-discusses-release-jfk-assassination-records )
4) Then give consideration to the fact that Jackie Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy both believed that JFK was killed by his “domestic enemies”...
5) Then give a credible explanation as to why evidence, etc. has been classified for decades...