Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?

[Bill Brown]

Except he didn't go by the office at all, but instead, according to Callaway, ran down an alley halfway down Patton, between 10th and Jefferson.

This matters.  It's directly related to when Callaway would have started his "good hard run".

Why did you say that Callaway said the fleeing gunman ran down the alley?

It is an erroneous statement from three years ago. I probably just misremembered.
It has nothing to do with our discussion now and it most certainly has nothing to do with when Callaway helped to load Tippit in the ambulance.

More than erroneous.  You made an outlandish statement.  Callaway never said such a thing.  But okay.

And YES, it does matter.  It's directly related to when Callaway would have began his "good hard run".

But that's fine.  You've admitted your error and I can move on.

[Martin Weidmann]

More than erroneous.  You made an outlandish statement.  Callaway never said such a thing.  But okay.

And YES, it does matter.  It's directly related to when Callaway would have began his "good hard run".

But that's fine.  You've admitted your error and I can move on.

Up to your old tricks already?

 

[Martin Weidmann]

Why can't both transmissions mentioning 1:19 be correct?  Are you saying that the two transmissions mentioning 1:19 are over a minute apart from each other?

Butler (the ambulance driver) radios in with Code 6 and almost immediately you hear the dispatcher reply to Butler with a 10-4 and gives the verbal timestamp of 1:19.  This is the first 1:19 you're referring to.

Then you have Owens asking dispatch for the address of the shooting.  Dispatch replies to Owens with the address of 501 E. Tenth.  I assume they had that mistaken address because Mary Wright was the first to call the police and that was her address.

Then you have Butler (ambulance) again with the Code 6.

Next are Poe and Jez asking for verification of the address and dispatch replies that they have two different addresses.

Owens notifies dispatch that he is en route.  Dispatch replies 10-4 to Owens.

Then the 2nd ambulance notifies dispatch that they are en route.  Dispatch replies with a 10-4 to that ambulance.  Dispatch then gives the verbal 1:19 time stamp.

Why can't both transmissions mentioning 1:19 be correct?

Oh, they are both correct, in the context of the DPD radio times, as the actual sound recording shows they happened 40 seconds apart.

I just wanted to establish when exactly you believe 1:19 actually started and you still haven't answered that question.

Did the first 1:19 call mark the beginning of that minute, yes or no?

[Bill Brown]

Why can't both transmissions mentioning 1:19 be correct?

Oh, they are both correct, in the context of the DPD radio times, as the actual sound recording shows they happened 40 seconds apart.

I just wanted to establish when exactly you believe 1:19 actually started and you still haven't answered that question.

Did the first 1:19 call mark the beginning of that minute, yes or no?

Explain how this is relevant to whether or not Callaway made his report to the dispatcher before or after he helped load the body into the ambulance.  I'm curious.

[Bill Brown]

After arriving on the scene in the ambulance, Butler and Kinsley rolled Tippit's body over (he was lying on his stomach) in order to place Tippit onto the stretcher..  Callaway noticed Tippit's service revolver lying on the street (it was underneath the body).  Callaway picked up the revolver and placed it on the hood of the patrol car and then helped Bowley, Butler and Kinsley load Tippit's body into the ambulance.

T.F. Bowley stated in his affidavit that once Tippit's body was loaded into the ambulance, he saw the service revolver lying on the hood of the patrol car (having been placed there moments earlier by Callaway).  Bowley picked up the revolver off of the hood and placed on the front seat of the patrol car.

"When the ambulance left, I took the gun and put it inside the squad car." -- T.F. Bowley (12/2/63 affidavit)

After making his report to the police dispatcher on the squad car radio, Callaway grabbed the service revolver from the front seat and proceeded to seek others to help him go off in search for the killer.

[Martin Weidmann]

Explain how this is relevant to whether or not Callaway made his report to the dispatcher before or after he helped load the body into the ambulance.  I'm curious.

Just answer the question and you will find out soon enough.

In the meantime let me just expand on what I said earlier;

Why can't both transmissions mentioning 1:19 be correct?

Oh, they are both correct, in the context of the DPD radio times, as the actual sound recording shows they happened 40 seconds apart.

I just wanted to establish when exactly you believe 1:19 actually started and you still haven't answered that question.

Did the first 1:19 call mark the beginning of that minute, yes or no?

I should add that the two 1:19 can only be correct if the first call was made no later than 21 seconds into the minute. If it was later than that, the second call wouldn't be correct.

[Martin Weidmann]

Why can't both transmissions mentioning 1:19 be correct?  Are you saying that the two transmissions mentioning 1:19 are over a minute apart from each other?

Butler (the ambulance driver) radios in with Code 6 and almost immediately you hear the dispatcher reply to Butler with a 10-4 and gives the verbal timestamp of 1:19.  This is the first 1:19 you're referring to.

Then you have Owens asking dispatch for the address of the shooting.  Dispatch replies to Owens with the address of 501 E. Tenth.  I assume they had that mistaken address because Mary Wright was the first to call the police and that was her address.

Then you have Butler (ambulance) again with the Code 6.

Next are Poe and Jez asking for verification of the address and dispatch replies that they have two different addresses.

Owens notifies dispatch that he is en route.  Dispatch replies 10-4 to Owens.

Then the 2nd ambulance notifies dispatch that they are en route.  Dispatch replies with a 10-4 to that ambulance.  Dispatch then gives the verbal 1:19 time stamp.

Let's have a closer look and compare what you have written with the actual audio recording.

Butler (the ambulance driver) radios in with Code 6 and almost immediately you hear the dispatcher reply to Butler with a 10-4 and gives the verbal timestamp of 1:19.  This is the first 1:19 you're referring to.

Yes it is. Butler's first code 6 call came 29 seconds after Bowley ended his radio call and only 17 seconds after 602 called code 5 to confirm they were en route, from the funeral home.

Then you have Owens asking dispatch for the address of the shooting.  Dispatch replies to Owens with the address of 501 E. Tenth.  I assume they had that mistaken address because Mary Wright was the first to call the police and that was her address.

Let's not forget to mention that 602 asks the dispatcher "What was that address on Jefferson?". This happens 3 seconds after the dispatcher called "10-4, 603 and 602. 1:19."

This indicates that ambulance 602 (who apparently had been given the wrong address) was at Jefferson at 26 seconds after leaving the funeral home. This is important because Butler later remembered that they nearly ran into a man on Jefferson who (and I am paraphrasing) seemed to be on the run and could have been the killer. If Butler remembered correctly it could mean that Tippit's killer was already on Jefferson about a little more than a minute after the shots were fired.

Then you have Butler (ambulance) again with the Code 6.

Yes, the call is mentioned on the DPD transcripts that used to be on McAdams' site. However, on the actual recording I can't really hear it. It sounds like there is another call in the background, but it is squeezed in (according to the transcripts) between calls from 105 (Poe and Jez) and 102 (Jones and Noll). The 102 call is so loud that it could have drowned out the other call. In any case, that call, if it was 602, happened at 11 seconds after the dispatcher gave 602 the correct location and 38 seconds after leaving the funeral home.

[Bill Brown]

So anyway....

More evidence that Callaway helped load the body into the ambulance BEFORE he got on the police radio to report the shooting...

"And then I got out of the cab and run down there; the ambulance had
already arrived by the time I got there, and they were in the process
of picking the man up, and they had done had him, was putting him on
the stretcher when I got there, and they put him in the ambulance and
took him away, and there was someone that got on the radio at that
time and they told him he was going to report it, so they told him to
get off the air, that it had already been reported, and he picks up
the officer's pistol that was laying on the ground, apparently fell
out of his holster when he fell, and says, "Come on, let's go see if
we can find him." -- WILLIAM SCOGGINS

The "someone that got on the radio" was Callaway and the "at that
time" was once the ambulance "took him away".