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Author Topic: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?  (Read 50252 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #96 on: April 29, 2022, 10:07:07 PM »
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As I've pointed out here..... Bowley, Benavides, Scoggins and the police tapes clearly tell you that Callaway got on the police radio just as the ambulance was pulling away from the scene with the body.

It's not my concern that Weidmann doesn't get it.

What's lost in all of this is that Callaway helping to load the body into the ambulance before he jumped on the patrol car radio has no bearing one way or the other on Oswald's already proven guilt for the murder of J.D. Tippit.

Face it.  Callaway arrived on the scene, helped load the body into the ambulance, got on the squad car radio to report the shooting to the dispatcher and then grabbed Tippit's service revolver and went off in search of the killer.

This thread is now wide open for others, if any of you wish, to comment, as the debate is apparently finished.

POW!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 10:09:26 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #96 on: April 29, 2022, 10:07:07 PM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #97 on: April 29, 2022, 10:41:40 PM »
With Malice recounts the happenings in a minute by minute chronological order.

====================

"While the dispatcher spoke with Officer Walker, ambulance driver J.C. Butler radioed to inform police that the man shot was a Dallas police officer and that they were about to leave the murder scene with his body." -- With Malice (2013) page 161

====================

"William "Eddie" Kinsley slammed the back door of the ambulance shut and climbed into the passenger seat next to Butler.  As Butler pulled away from the crowd, he again tried to contact the dispatcher to tell him they were en route to the hospital, but this time Ted Callaway was on the radio.  "I ran over to the squad car," Callaway recalled, "I didn't know if anybody reported it or not.  So I got on the police radio and called them."

Ted Callaway: Hello, hello, hello.

J.C. Butler:  602

Callaway:  - calling from right here on Tenth Street - 500 block - this police officer's just shot.  I think he's dead.

Dispatcher:  10-4, we have the information.  The citizen using the radio will remain off the air now."


With Malice (2013) page 162

====================

"While Callaway was talking to the dispatcher, T.F. Bowley took Tippit's gun, which was lying on the hood of the squad car, and put it in the front seat, next to the used car salesman."

"After the officer on the other side of the radio told Callaway to hang up and keep the lines clear," Benavides recalled, "he jumped out and ran around and he asked me did I see what happened and I said, 'Yes.'"

"Callaway reached back into the squad car and picked up Tippit's .38 caliber service revolver off the front seat.  He turned to Benavides and said, "Let's chase him," but the mechanic declined.  Callaway snapped the revolver open and T.F. Bowley - who was looking on - saw that no rounds had been fired.  Callaway tucked the gun in his belt and turned to the cab driver."


With Malice (2013) page 163

====================

Reclaiming History recounts the happenings in a minute by minute chronological order.

"Butler kneels next to Tippit's body and rolls him on his back as Kinsley pulls the stretcher cot from the back of the station wagon.  Tippit's pistol is out of it's holster, lying on the pavement near his right palm.  Ted Callaway moves the gun to the hood of the squad car, then with Scoggins and Guinyard, helps the attendants lift the body onto the stretcher.  As they do so, the first Dallas police officer to arrive at the murder scene, reserve sergeant Kenneth Croy, pulls up.  Butler and Kinsley push the cot into the back, slam the door and are off in a flash to Methodist Hospital about a mile away."

Reclaiming History (2007) page 83

====================

"Ted Callaway can hear the confusion and desperation of the police over Tippit's car radio as they struggle to locate the scene of the officer's shooting.  He lowers his big frame into the patrol car and grabs the mike, "Hello, hello, hello!" "From out here on Tenth Street," he continues, "five-hundred block.  This police officer's just shot.  I think he's dead." "Ten-four, we [already] have the information'" dispatcher Jackson replies, exasperated.  "The citizen using the radio will remain off the air now." The last thing he needs is some gung-ho citizen tying up the airwaves."

"Ted Callaway climbs out of the squad car and spots his mechanic, Domingo Benavides. "Did you see what happened?" "Yes", Benavides says.  Callaway picks up Tippit's service revolver.  "Let's chase him," he says.  Benavides wants no part of it.  Callaway tucks the gun in his belt and turns to the cabdriver, Scoggins."


Reclaiming History (2007) page 84

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #98 on: April 29, 2022, 10:49:34 PM »
As I've pointed out here..... Bowley, Benavides, Scoggins and the police tapes clearly tell you that Callaway got on the police radio just as the ambulance was pulling away from the scene with the body.

It's not my concern that Weidmann doesn't get it.

What's lost in all of this is that Callaway helping to load the body into the ambulance before he jumped on the patrol car radio has no bearing one way or the other on Oswald's already proven guilt for the murder of J.D. Tippit.

Face it.  Callaway arrived on the scene, helped load the body into the ambulance, got on the squad car radio to report the shooting to the dispatcher and then grabbed Tippit's service revolver and went off in search of the killer.

This thread is now wide open for others, if any of you wish, to comment, as the debate is apparently finished.

It's not my concern that Weidmann doesn't get it.

More preaching. It's not my concern that Brown can not support his own claims with credible evidence and doesn't know how a debate works.

What's lost in all of this is that Callaway helping to load the body into the ambulance before he jumped on the patrol car radio has no bearing one way or the other on Oswald's already proven guilt for the murder of J.D. Tippit.

Nobody said it did, but the mere fact that this thought preoccupied you is very telling indeed.

This thread is now wide open for others, if any of you wish, to comment, as the debate is apparently finished.

Was there a debate? Did I miss something? All I saw was you grandstanding based upon erroneous opinions with nothing of any evidentiary value to back it up.

For what it's worth....

With Malice (2013) pages 160-164
Reclaiming History (2007) pages 83-84

Both of the above books (with the corresponding page numbers) agree with the fact that Callaway helped load the body into the ambulance and then, once the ambulance was speeding away, jumped on the squad car radio to report the shooting to the police dispatcher; exactly as I have been saying all along.

For what it's worth....

It's worth absolutely nothing. It's a pathetic appeal at percieved authority. It only tells us that you can not even form an independent opinion of your own or defend it.

As it turnsout now, I was indeed having - what was supposed to be - a "debate" with a couple of books written by biased authors.

exactly as I have been saying all along

Indeed, you have been saying it. You just haven't been able to prove it or even make a credible case to support it.

Next time you ask me to debate you, please try to bring something credible and of substance to the table, because what you have done in this thread is downright embarrasing.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 11:18:39 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #98 on: April 29, 2022, 10:49:34 PM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #99 on: April 29, 2022, 11:21:22 PM »
Next time you ask me to debate you, please try to bring something credible and of substance to the table, because what you have done in this thread is downright embarrasing.

Next time?  How about right now?

Any day this week.  The entire Tippit case.  Skype, or just audio, whichever you prefer.  Fair enough?

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #100 on: April 29, 2022, 11:32:23 PM »
With Malice recounts the happenings in a minute by minute chronological order.

====================

"While the dispatcher spoke with Officer Walker, ambulance driver J.C. Butler radioed to inform police that the man shot was a Dallas police officer and that they were about to leave the murder scene with his body." -- With Malice (2013) page 161

====================

"William "Eddie" Kinsley slammed the back door of the ambulance shut and climbed into the passenger seat next to Butler.  As Butler pulled away from the crowd, he again tried to contact the dispatcher to tell him they were en route to the hospital, but this time Ted Callaway was on the radio.  "I ran over to the squad car," Callaway recalled, "I didn't know if anybody reported it or not.  So I got on the police radio and called them."

Ted Callaway: Hello, hello, hello.

J.C. Butler:  602

Callaway:  - calling from right here on Tenth Street - 500 block - this police officer's just shot.  I think he's dead.

Dispatcher:  10-4, we have the information.  The citizen using the radio will remain off the air now."


With Malice (2013) page 162

====================

"While Callaway was talking to the dispatcher, T.F. Bowley took Tippit's gun, which was lying on the hood of the squad car, and put it in the front seat, next to the used car salesman."

"After the officer on the other side of the radio told Callaway to hang up and keep the lines clear," Benavides recalled, "he jumped out and ran around and he asked me did I see what happened and I said, 'Yes.'"

"Callaway reached back into the squad car and picked up Tippit's .38 caliber service revolver off the front seat.  He turned to Benavides and said, "Let's chase him," but the mechanic declined.  Callaway snapped the revolver open and T.F. Bowley - who was looking on - saw that no rounds had been fired.  Callaway tucked the gun in his belt and turned to the cab driver."


With Malice (2013) page 163

====================

Reclaiming History recounts the happenings in a minute by minute chronological order.

"Butler kneels next to Tippit's body and rolls him on his back as Kinsley pulls the stretcher cot from the back of the station wagon.  Tippit's pistol is out of it's holster, lying on the pavement near his right palm.  Ted Callaway moves the gun to the hood of the squad car, then with Scoggins and Guinyard, helps the attendants lift the body onto the stretcher.  As they do so, the first Dallas police officer to arrive at the murder scene, reserve sergeant Kenneth Croy, pulls up.  Butler and Kinsley push the cot into the back, slam the door and are off in a flash to Methodist Hospital about a mile away."

Reclaiming History (2007) page 83

====================

"Ted Callaway can hear the confusion and desperation of the police over Tippit's car radio as they struggle to locate the scene of the officer's shooting.  He lowers his big frame into the patrol car and grabs the mike, "Hello, hello, hello!" "From out here on Tenth Street," he continues, "five-hundred block.  This police officer's just shot.  I think he's dead." "Ten-four, we [already] have the information'" dispatcher Jackson replies, exasperated.  "The citizen using the radio will remain off the air now." The last thing he needs is some gung-ho citizen tying up the airwaves."

"Ted Callaway climbs out of the squad car and spots his mechanic, Domingo Benavides. "Did you see what happened?" "Yes", Benavides says.  Callaway picks up Tippit's service revolver.  "Let's chase him," he says.  Benavides wants no part of it.  Callaway tucks the gun in his belt and turns to the cabdriver, Scoggins."


Reclaiming History (2007) page 84

Quote
"While the dispatcher spoke with Officer Walker, ambulance driver J.C. Butler radioed to inform police that the man shot was a Dallas police officer and that they were about to leave the murder scene with his body." -- With Malice (2013) page 161

Misrepresentation. Butler never said, anywhere, that he was calling the dispatcher to say that they were about to leave. He only said he called him to inform police that the victim was an officer.

Quote
"William "Eddie" Kinsley slammed the back door of the ambulance shut and climbed into the passenger seat next to Butler.  As Butler pulled away from the crowd, he again tried to contact the dispatcher to tell him they were en route to the hospital, but this time Ted Callaway was on the radio.  "I ran over to the squad car," Callaway recalled, "I didn't know if anybody reported it or not.  So I got on the police radio and called them."

Ted Callaway: Hello, hello, hello.

J.C. Butler:  602

Callaway:  - calling from right here on Tenth Street - 500 block - this police officer's just shot.  I think he's dead.

Dispatcher:  10-4, we have the information.  The citizen using the radio will remain off the air now."


With Malice (2013) page 162


Editorializing based on an assumption not supported by the evidence.

Btw, why would Callaway wonder if the shooting had been reported if there was an ambulance on the scene already?

Quote
"While Callaway was talking to the dispatcher, T.F. Bowley took Tippit's gun, which was lying on the hood of the squad car, and put it in the front seat, next to the used car salesman."

"After the officer on the other side of the radio told Callaway to hang up and keep the lines clear," Benavides recalled, "he jumped out and ran around and he asked me did I see what happened and I said, 'Yes.'"

"Callaway reached back into the squad car and picked up Tippit's .38 caliber service revolver off the front seat.  He turned to Benavides and said, "Let's chase him," but the mechanic declined.  Callaway snapped the revolver open and T.F. Bowley - who was looking on - saw that no rounds had been fired.  Callaway tucked the gun in his belt and turned to the cab driver."


With Malice (2013) page 163

Nice speech, too bad there isn't a shred of evidence to back it up.

Quote
"Ted Callaway can hear the confusion and desperation of the police over Tippit's car radio as they struggle to locate the scene of the officer's shooting.  He lowers his big frame into the patrol car and grabs the mike, "Hello, hello, hello!" "From out here on Tenth Street," he continues, "five-hundred block.  This police officer's just shot.  I think he's dead." "Ten-four, we [already] have the information'" dispatcher Jackson replies, exasperated.  "The citizen using the radio will remain off the air now." The last thing he needs is some gung-ho citizen tying up the airwaves."

Hilarious.... so now Callaway knows that the shooting had already been reported, because he allegedly hears "the confusion and desperation of the police over Tippit's car radio as they struggle to locate the scene of the officer's shooting". Bugliosi contradicts Myers.... Nice!

And besides, if the ambulance was already there, doesn't that by itself mean that they already know the location of the shooting?

Like I said.... embarrasing. Myers and Bugliosi can't even get their own fairytale story straight!

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #100 on: April 29, 2022, 11:32:23 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #101 on: April 29, 2022, 11:38:52 PM »

Next time?  How about right now?

Any day this week.  The entire Tippit case.  Skype, or just audio, whichever you prefer.  Fair enough?


Lol.... Why don't I simply read Myers and Bugliosi's books? That will spare me the constant repeats of the same old BS and give you time to learn how to debate. When you have figured out how a debate works, get back to me.  Thumb1:

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #102 on: April 29, 2022, 11:42:58 PM »
Lol.... Why don't I simply read Myers and Bugliosi's books? That will spare me the constant repeats of the same old BS and give you time to learn how to debate. When you have figured out how a debate works, get back to me.  Thumb1:

I guess that's a No then.  I'm not surprised.  You've presented nothing of substance in a mini-debate.  You shouldn't be expected to produce anything of substance if you had to think on the go in a live debate.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #103 on: April 29, 2022, 11:55:05 PM »
I guess that's a No then.  I'm not surprised.  You've presented nothing of substance in a mini-debate.  You shouldn't be expected to produce anything of substance if you had to think on the go in a live debate.

I guess that's a No then.

Where did i say that? I told you to get back to me when you've learned how to debate.

You've presented nothing of substance in a mini-debate.

If you say so....  :D    So, that's why you couldn't counter anything I have said? Got it!

You shouldn't be expected to produce anything of substance if you had to think on the go in a live debate.

Who said that a live debate would require the participants to "think on the go"? Where do you get this crap?

But you're boring me and your feeble attempt to save face by trying to bait me isn't working. Declare yourself the winner if your ego needs that, but for now I have had more than enough of your childish nonsense.

Now, shall we sit back and let the others voice their opinions?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2022, 11:56:10 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?
« Reply #103 on: April 29, 2022, 11:55:05 PM »