Brown/Weidmann, Mini-Debate?

[Martin Weidmann]

So now that the big show is is over....

This is what I have for the timing of the two "1:19" calls with respect to the Bowley transmission. If I arbitrarily assign the Bowley transmission at +0:00 minutes, then the first "1:19" comes in at  +1:16 and he second one comes in at +1:56. The two 1:19 calls are 40 seconds apart. What we can get from this is that it's safe to assume that 1:19:30PM on the dispatchers clock occurred between the two 1:19 timestamps, since the interval between the two timestamps is greater than 30 seconds.

At this point, we consider two cases.

The first is that the first timestamp happened at 1:19:00PM . Then the second one would have occurred at 1:19:40. Therefore, 1:19:30PM would be 10 seconds before the second timestamp in this case. This is the upper limit for 1:19:30.

The second case puts the second timestamp at 1:19:59PM (and we'll round up one second to 1:20:00 just to make things look neater). In this case, the first timestamp would be at 1:19:20PM. In this case, 1:19:30 would be 10 seconds after the first timestamp.

Plugging this back into the Ch 1 recording run time, we get:

+0:00   Hello, police operator....
+1:16   1:19 #1
+1:26   Lower limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:46   Upper limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:56   1:19#2

It's probably better just to say that 1:19:30 occurs at +1:36 +/10 seconds after the beginning of the Bowley call. That would put 1:18:00PM at +0:06  +/- 0:10. Or, the Bowley transmission begins at 1:17:54PM +/- 10 seconds. It could be as early as 1:17:44 and as late as 1:18:04.

Having said that, I should add that Callaway hits the air at +2:12 after the beginning of Bowley's transmission. That would put the Callaway transmission at at 1:20:06PM again +/- 10 seconds.

Nice bit of speculation, based on the assumption (1) that the dispatcher clock is only marginally off, when it could in fact be two minutes off, not from real time but from the master clock in the dispatcher's office and (2) that the dispatcher made the calls on time.

Another problem is the fact that the official narrative has the time of the shooting between 1:14:30 and 1:15. Callaway's arrival on the scene, which happened during the 46 seconds between the end of Bowley's call and the arrival of the ambulance, makes it highly unlikely that Bowley started his call at 1:17 or even 1:17:44(or later).

[Charles Collins]

This is interesting
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf

216 pages DPD radio transmissions
Download PDF format

One thing that I find interesting is that in G. D. Hensley’s transcript dated 12/5/63, he identifies the person asking “What’s that address on Jefferson?” as patrolman #85 (R.W. Walker, not ambulance 602).

[Bill Brown]

Two comments;

The segment we have been discussing in this thread starts with Bowley's call at 57:28

This recording runs a little bit faster than the one I have used, but the difference during the entire approx 3 minutes segment is only 2 seconds.

The key times are:

57:28:67 Bowley starts his call
58:14:42 Bowley ends his call (being told to stay of the radio)

58:24:35 Ambulance 602 calls Code 5 (en route)
58:41:85 Ambulance 602 calls Code 6 (for wrong location at Jefferson)
58:48:40 Ambulance 602 asks dispatcher for address on Jefferson - Dispatcher replies: 501 Tenth Street
59:02:85 Ambulance 602 calls Code 6 (for arrival at Tippit scene)

59:30:99 Ambulance 602 tries to get attention of the dispatcher by calling "602"

59:40:98 Callaway starts his call

59:42:85 Ambulance 602 tries again to het the attention of the dispatcher by calling "602"

I should note that there are marginal differences between the times I used earlier in the thread, as they were clocked with a stopwatch, and these more accurate ones, that were obtained by using Wavelab.

[Bill Brown]

So now that the big show is is over....

This is what I have for the timing of the two "1:19" calls with respect to the Bowley transmission. If I arbitrarily assign the Bowley transmission at +0:00 minutes, then the first "1:19" comes in at  +1:16 and he second one comes in at +1:56. The two 1:19 calls are 40 seconds apart. What we can get from this is that it's safe to assume that 1:19:30PM on the dispatchers clock occurred between the two 1:19 timestamps, since the interval between the two timestamps is greater than 30 seconds.

At this point, we consider two cases.

The first is that the first timestamp happened at 1:19:00PM . Then the second one would have occurred at 1:19:40. Therefore, 1:19:30PM would be 10 seconds before the second timestamp in this case. This is the upper limit for 1:19:30.

The second case puts the second timestamp at 1:19:59PM (and we'll round up one second to 1:20:00 just to make things look neater). In this case, the first timestamp would be at 1:19:20PM. In this case, 1:19:30 would be 10 seconds after the first timestamp.

Plugging this back into the Ch 1 recording run time, we get:

+0:00   Hello, police operator....
+1:16   1:19 #1
+1:26   Lower limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:46   Upper limit for 1:19:30PM
+1:56   1:19#2

It's probably better just to say that 1:19:30 occurs at +1:36 +/10 seconds after the beginning of the Bowley call. That would put 1:18:00PM at +0:06  +/- 0:10. Or, the Bowley transmission begins at 1:17:54PM +/- 10 seconds. It could be as early as 1:17:44 and as late as 1:18:04.

Having said that, I should add that Callaway hits the air at +2:12 after the beginning of Bowley's transmission. That would put the Callaway transmission at at 1:20:06PM again +/- 10 seconds.

Having said that, I should add that Callaway hits the air at +2:12 after the beginning of Bowley's transmission. That would put the Callaway transmission at at 1:20:06PM again +/- 10 seconds.

Correct; meaning Callaway's call took place as the ambulance was leaving the scene.

I value your opinion, Mitch.  Do you agree with that?

[Martin Weidmann]

Bill,

Instead of asking Mitch to speculate, why don't you simply answer John's question;

Evidence please that 602 was “trying to contact the dispatcher to tell him they were en route to the hospital” when he just said “602” and the dispatcher didn’t respond.

“Dale Myers thinks so” is not evidence.

We've got Callaway saying he helped to load Tippit into the ambulance after he made his call three times; once in a statement to the FBI in 1964, once in his WC testimony and once during his testimony during the mock trial in the 80's.

[Bill Brown]

Bill,

Instead of asking Mitch to speculate, why don't you simply answer John's question;

We've got Callaway saying he helped to load Tippit into the ambulance after he made his call three times; once in a statement to the FBI in 1964, once in his WC testimony and once during his testimony during the mock trial in the 80's.

And as I said a year ago... Callaway is misremembering that particular order of events.  Scoggins, Bowley, Benavides and the police tapes tell you so.

As for a response to John Iacoletti, I'm not ignoring it.  I am trying to find the source.  Some of this stuff I have known for years and have no idea where I first learned it.

[Martin Weidmann]

And as I said a year ago... Callaway is misremembering that particular order of events.  Scoggins, Bowley, Benavides and the police tapes tell you so.

As for a response to John Iacoletti, I'm not ignoring it.  I am trying to find the source.  Some of this stuff I have known for years and have no idea where I first learned it.

So, we're back to square one....

I suppose Butler, the ambulance driver, was also mistaken when he told George and Patricia Nash in 1964 that he was trying to let the dispatcher know that the victim was an officer?

[Bill Brown]

So, we're back to square one....

I suppose Butler, the ambulance driver, was also mistaken when he told George and Patricia Nash in 1964 that he was trying to let the dispatcher know that the victim was an officer?

I'm only telling you what the police tapes tell us.  The tapes tell us that Callaway made his report to the police dispatcher AFTER the body was loaded and the ambulance was pulling away from the scene.

Once we have that, we are left to decide how much weight to give everything else.

You say you have Callaway and Butler.  I say I have Benavides, Scoggins and Bowley.

I have a question for you, Martin.  In your opinion, what time did the Tippit shooting occur?  Rough estimate?