I'm not getting in the car.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Humm, I don't know about this. At worse, this would have been only a delaying tactic. Once the riot was under control, Pence could have been brought back to the Capitol to certify the election. Taking Pence far away would have kept Pence from the Capitol for no more than a few hours.

I agree, however, that this looks very bad. If it was Trump's intent to delay certification by having Pence taken far away for a while, this would further discredit Trump.

[Joe Elliott]

Humm, I don't know about this. At worse, this would have been only a delaying tactic. Once the riot was under control, Pence could have been brought back to the Capitol to certify the election. Taking Pence far away would have kept Pence from the Capitol for no more than a few hours.

I agree, however, that this looks very bad. If it was Trump's intent to delay certification by having Pence taken far away for a while, this would further discredit Trump.

Yes, if Pence is driven away from the Capitol, he could always be driven back to preside over the official counting of the Electoral votes. Unless the Secret Service, possibly acting under President Trump's orders, determines that it is still too dangerous for Pence to return to the Capitol. In which case a senator, possibly Chuck Grassley, would take over those duties. And the same pressure put on Pence would be put on that senator.

The following story shows that Senator Grassley was informed, by January 5, that Pence might not be able to perform his duties on January 6. So there seems to be some sort of scheme of this sort afoot.

https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2021/01/05/grassley-suggests-he-may-preside-over-senate-debate-on-electoral-college-votes/

Another article on this is at:

https://iowastartingline.com/2022/06/01/report-trump-lawyer-wanted-grassley-to-help-overturn-2020-election/


So the critical question about the Secret Service agents guarding Pence is, was their loyalty to the Constitution or was it to President Trump? If it was to Trump, I doubt Pence would have been driven back to the Capitol in time to oversee the counting of the Electoral votes. The deletion of all the Secret Service texts is a strong indicator that their loyalty was not to the Constitution.

So, Mike Pence's decision not to get into that car may very well have been a watershed event. A true turning point in history. And that decision may have been made as a result of the tweet that Trump sent out to his rioters, and which also reached Pence about the time he reached the garage:

"Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!"

[Jerry Freeman]

The spitting images of Nasty Pelosi on the left and Mitch McConnell on the right.

[Joe Elliott]

The spitting images of Nasty Pelosi on the left and Mitch McConnell on the right.

I get the impression that you are not a big fan of democracy. Which explains why you gravitate toward the CT side of the JFK assassination issue. I think that, in general, CTers are not big believers in democracy. Not in America nor anywhere else.

Republicans and Democrats are spitting images of each other? One side supports making America into an Authoritarian regime, a Dictatorship. The other side supports maintaining Democracy, allowing the people to vote for their representatives.

I have disagreed, to some extent, with some of the Democratic party's policies. But as long as Republicans support Authoritarianism, I am voting strictly Democratic. Up until January 2021, I was a lifelong Republican, as was my father and grandfather. I now expect that I will never vote for a Republican candidate again. Certain not for one who does not condemn Trump's to overturn the election. Though I am not a Republican, I think, that fundamentally, I am still a Republican. Because, at the most basic level, what is a Republican? It is one who supports and believes in and would never betray the government of the people, by the people, for the people.

[Jerry Freeman]

I get the impression that you are not a big fan of democracy.  I think that, in general, CTers are not big believers in democracy. Not in America nor anywhere else.

The US Constitution establishes a Republic...not a 'democracy'. If this country were actually a true democracy that would mean that the top dozen or so cities would decide who runs the USA. The rest of us could just fk off. That is the Democrat Party's agenda.

Republicans and Democrats are spitting images of each other? One side supports making America into an Authoritarian regime, a Dictatorship. The other side supports maintaining Democracy, allowing the people to vote for their representatives.

I just stated as much above.

 

Though I am not a Republican, I think, that fundamentally, I am still a Republican. Because, at the most basic level, what is a Republican? It is one who supports and believes in and would never betray the government of the people, by the people, for the people.
 

Nor am I a Republican. I identify mostly as a Libertarian.

The Libertarian Party (LP) is a political party in the United States that promotes civil liberties, non-interventionism, laissez-faire capitalism, and limiting the size and scope of government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)
Also... I am not a conspiracy theorist and I am a veteran of the US Navy and proudly served our country.

[Joe Elliott]

The US Constitution establishes a Republic...not a 'democracy'. If this country were actually a true democracy that would mean that the top dozen or so cities would decide who runs the USA. The rest of us could just fk off. That is the Democrat Party's agenda.

It is true, that originally, the United States was not a true democracy. But by around 1830, it was, at least to a certain extent, while still limited to white males. And it has continued to evolve into a truer and truer democracy ever since. And all has been done under the rules of the Constitution.

In any case I no longer suspect you do not support democracy. I know you do not. At best you support democracy, unless you find some excuse not to. Like if the voters who support the side you are against happen to be concentrated in "a dozen or so large cities". "If we ignore those voters, we are in the majority". No, you're not.

Also... I am not a conspiracy theorist and I am a veteran of the US Navy and proudly served our country.

You can be a both a veteran and a conspiracy theorist.

Questions:

You do believe that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, do you not?

How many do you think were involved in killing JFK?

What do you think was most likely the goal of the conspirators?

[Jerry Freeman]

 I have answered all these questions on the the other board. You know that.

You do believe that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, do you not?

That would not necessarily make it a theory being that the lone gunman theory is a demonstrated proven covered up fraud.

How many do you think were involved in killing JFK?

I haven't the foggiest clue so I won't theorize further.

What do you think was most likely the goal of the conspirators?

The very undemocratic goal of removing the Chief Executive and reversing the election [obviously]

[Rick Plant]

Criminal Donald and his thugs tried to get the Secret Service to take Pence away so he couldn't certify Joe Biden's electoral victory.

Old man Chuck Grassley said he was going to take over the duty.

The GOP are treasonous traitors.