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Author Topic: Jim Leavelle Misremembers  (Read 7221 times)

Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2022, 09:40:27 PM »
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Hi John, How have you been doing? It is good to see you are still here! I know about and agree with your statements. And don't forget Detective Leavelle's: we handled the President's assassination like a south Dallas Nword killing. Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
 

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2022, 09:40:27 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2022, 01:41:57 AM »
Hi Tim, How have you been doing? According to Vicki she said she did not say that in her Warren Commission testimony. She said that they inserted it. Notice her testimony was Top Secret. Why? Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael


I'm doing fine Michael. I hope you're fairing well yourself. Vicki was wrong. She viewed that page, as is evidenced by her marking "there" on it? Barry Ernest admitted that it's her handwriting on it. The encounter with Lovelady and Shelley is mentioned on another page as well. The Top Secret designation was not unique to her deposition.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2022, 01:42:54 AM »
What kind of honorable man shows up at somebody's private residence at night unannounced and lies to her about there being a fire at the station that destroyed her earlier statements?

Never happened.

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2022, 01:42:54 AM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2022, 01:54:18 AM »
Hi Tim, How have you been doing? According to Vicki she said she did not say that in her Warren Commission testimony. She said that they inserted it. Notice her testimony was Top Secret. Why? Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael

A. Even though Miss Adams waived her right to examine her testimony (as indicated in her deposition), a copy was hand-delivered to her office for her to examine, which she did, notated some spelling and grammar errors, and then signed. (Perhaps this was done to put on record the fact she had seen her testimony prior to publication.) None of her corrections involved the timing issue, however, which in the original stenographer's copy of her testimony is shown as "Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately." In my interviews with her, she said the gentleman who delivered the copy of her testimony "stood over" her, watching intently as she made the corrections, which you can see in her handwriting in the original testimony. None of those corrections involved the "15 and 30 seconds" passage, and she did not make the trek to the U.S. attorney's office to make the changes.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17359-new-book-on-victoria-adams-by-author-barry-ernest/page/3/#comment-224163




Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2022, 02:25:34 AM »
Hi Tim, I am happy that you are doing fine. I am fine too. On Mr. Barry Ernest's wordpress page he says this:
 "William Shelley and Billy Lovelady, of course, are the most critical since the Commission used their words to discredit Vicki.  In her testimony, Vicki is quoted as saying she saw those two on the first floor when she arrived there within a minute after the assassination. But how could that be if she came down that fast and both men testified they remained outside for several minutes following the shooting?  Vicki contends she did not say she saw them, and the Shelley/Lovelady passage was inserted into a later transcript of her testimony to make her appear wrong. Certainly the Commission’s unstudied conclusion that Vicki was confused and descended later than she thought avoided having to explain why she didn’t see or hear anyone on the same stairs when, if she was indeed accurate with her timing, Oswald should have been there."
"James Leavelle interviewed Vicki on the night of February 17, 1964, under suspicious circumstances. He told her, for instance, he was there because a fire at police headquarters had destroyed Vicki’s earlier file. Despite previous questioning by several different authorities, this was the first time—now three months after the assassination—in which Vicki mentions the names Shelley and Lovelady."
"After descending the stairs Vicki went out the rear door, then in a few moments returned to the front entrance.  There, she noticed Joe Molina. Since Molina testified he only briefly remained outside before going back to work, Vicki’s sighting of him lends support for her swift descent, exit, and return to the building.  Molina, who was questioned late in the afternoon that day, should have been asked about Vicki since, during her earlier session, she specifically brought up his name, and Molina was being questioned about who he saw while standing outside. (Also at the front entrance, Vicki spotted and actually conversed with another employee, Avery Davis, who likely was spared the same fate as those above since she was never examined by the Commission.) The evidence remains consistent with Vicki coming down the stairs exactly as she testified.  Therefore, if she really did say in her testimony that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, then those men lied under oath for some reason about remaining outside. But if she really didn’t say she saw them, then her testimony was falsified. That’s why the first-generation stenotype tape is so important." The stenotype tape of that particular day is missing. Sincerely yours, Michael


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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2022, 02:25:34 AM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2022, 02:44:07 AM »
Hi Tim, I am happy that you are doing fine. I am fine too. On Mr. Barry Ernest's wordpress page he says this:
 "William Shelley and Billy Lovelady, of course, are the most critical since the Commission used their words to discredit Vicki.  In her testimony, Vicki is quoted as saying she saw those two on the first floor when she arrived there within a minute after the assassination. But how could that be if she came down that fast and both men testified they remained outside for several minutes following the shooting?  Vicki contends she did not say she saw them, and the Shelley/Lovelady passage was inserted into a later transcript of her testimony to make her appear wrong. Certainly the Commission’s unstudied conclusion that Vicki was confused and descended later than she thought avoided having to explain why she didn’t see or hear anyone on the same stairs when, if she was indeed accurate with her timing, Oswald should have been there."
"James Leavelle interviewed Vicki on the night of February 17, 1964, under suspicious circumstances. He told her, for instance, he was there because a fire at police headquarters had destroyed Vicki’s earlier file. Despite previous questioning by several different authorities, this was the first time—now three months after the assassination—in which Vicki mentions the names Shelley and Lovelady."
"After descending the stairs Vicki went out the rear door, then in a few moments returned to the front entrance.  There, she noticed Joe Molina. Since Molina testified he only briefly remained outside before going back to work, Vicki’s sighting of him lends support for her swift descent, exit, and return to the building.  Molina, who was questioned late in the afternoon that day, should have been asked about Vicki since, during her earlier session, she specifically brought up his name, and Molina was being questioned about who he saw while standing outside. (Also at the front entrance, Vicki spotted and actually conversed with another employee, Avery Davis, who likely was spared the same fate as those above since she was never examined by the Commission.) The evidence remains consistent with Vicki coming down the stairs exactly as she testified.  Therefore, if she really did say in her testimony that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, then those men lied under oath for some reason about remaining outside. But if she really didn’t say she saw them, then her testimony was falsified. That’s why the first-generation stenotype tape is so important." The stenotype tape of that particular day is missing. Sincerely yours, Michael

Vicki mentioned the encounter with Lovelady and Shelly twice during her deposition. She was wrong in stating decades later that the encounter was inserted in the transcript of her testimony. She viewed one of the pages that has the encounter on it. The encounter with Lovelady and Shelly rules out an early descent by her. Even without that encounter, an early descent by her is highly improbable due to the fact that she never met Baker and Truly on her way down.  I mean, think about that. The story about Leavelle lying to her is not believable.

Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2022, 03:19:14 AM »
Hi Tim. Of course I am going to disagree with you. Detective Leavelle took a lot of statements, and he was very smart. I really think he knew what was needed to help frame Oswald, and he wasn't afraid to do it. According to Barry Ernest, Officer Marrion Baker, Miss Sandra Styles, and Miss Vicki Adams all said that they did not see Bill Shelley or Billy Lovelady on the first floor. They all only saw a large black man on the first floor. My best guess is they all three saw Mr. Troy West. Sincerely yours, Michael

"Oddly, Armstrong completely ignores the one man all three individuals—Miss Adams, Miss Styles, and Officer Baker—independently told me they noticed near those elevators: a large black man. That is the only person Vicki said she saw and spoke to, not Shelley or Lovelady. That is the only person Miss Styles observed, not Shelley or Lovelady or the police. And that is the same man Baker told me he was about to confront, a la Oswald seconds later on the second floor, until Truly told him the black man was an employee."

In this Darnell frame, it appears that both Vicki and Sandra have made it down the stairs and out the back of the TSBD; and are headed back in the front entrance of the TSBD just after Marrion Baker has gone in. They are the two ladies on the right side a few steps up under the lady with her right arm shielding her eyes[Pauline Sanders]. Vicki said she saw Joe Molina on the front steps, and he is still there on the right side in the white shirt one step down from the top.



Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2022, 06:53:52 PM »
Never happened.

And you know this how?  Because he was an "honorable man"?  Sounds circular.  Victoria Adams was an honorable woman.

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Re: Jim Leavelle Misremembers
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2022, 06:53:52 PM »