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Author Topic: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)  (Read 36063 times)

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #216 on: June 25, 2022, 09:45:55 PM »
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I said everything I wanted (or needed) to say in that conversation in order to get my points across with respect to J.D. Tippit's murder.

Not everything uttered by every CTer in every discussion is going to get moved over to my own blog site, and that is so for one very simple and logical reason, which is a reason I stressed many times at The Education Forum when my blog archive became such a popular topic with the CTers there in 2016 and again in 2019:

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"The stuff I save on my site is mainly for the purpose of archiving MY OWN words and MY OWN Kennedy arguments. And what better place to archive one's own material than at their own site (or blog)?

Why on Earth would people want to use up hundreds of hours of their time to write up posts for an Internet forum, only to run the high risk that those posts will vanish into nothingness in just a short time? One year? Two years? Who knows? All Lancer Forum posts are now gone forever, except for perhaps a few that are recoverable via the Wayback Machine at Archive.org.

IMO, it's just dumb to take that risk. So, I archive my own material at my site. And if "my material" is in the form of a REPLY to a conspiracy theorist on a JFK forum, then (of course) it makes sense to bring the CTer's words that I'm replying to along for the ride too."
-- DVP; February 2016


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Three years later (after apparently not giving a damn about this matter for the interim 3-year period), it suddenly became a major issue with some of the CTers at the EF, at which time I said the following (all emphasis in original post):

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"I shall again stress this important point....

The portions of any Internet forum discussion that I copy to my website are almost always only the portions that I myself have CHOSEN to participate in --- and no more than that. If I have chosen not to respond to various points being made in the same thread, then (naturally) there will be nothing in those particular sections of a discussion that I would have a desire to transfer over to my site --- because my main goal at my site is to archive my own comments and posts (so that my posts won't be lost to the dustbin of the Internet junkyard should the forums I'm posting on go belly-up in the future). But the entire discussion is always made available to view via a link that I always include (if it's available) at the bottom of each of my webpages.

And it is my firm opinion that I have not "distorted" or "misrepresented" anyone's comments
that appear on my website. (James DiEugenio's constant protests to the contrary
notwithstanding.)"
-- DVP; August 2019


http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2019/08/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1330.html

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Ironically, there was a discussion on this very forum back in early September of 2014 in which Martin Weidmann and I
had the following exchange:

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MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:

Do you really copy/paste every discussion about JFK?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Most of the ones that I am personally involved in, yes. (So I can archive them at my websites.)

Sorry if it bothers you.


MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:

Please tell me you have a life beyond this case..... if you can, that is.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I can't tell you that, because I don't have a life. Haven't for years.

Sorry if it bothers you.


MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:

It doesn't bother me at all. I just think it is very very sad, that's all.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yes, it is. But we puppets who work at Langley have no choice. Once CIA---always CIA.

~sigh~


MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:

That's an extremely paranoid reply, David.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Hint: It was a joke, Martin.


MARTIN WEIDMANN SAID:

I was only amazed that anybody would go through such length to archive and index most of his conversations about a 50 year old murder.

What would the purpose for that even be?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I like to archive my writings in a place where I know they'll be safe.

Plus, I don't like the idea of taking hours (sometimes) to write an article or an Internet post and then having it virtually vanish from sight overnight (as almost all Internet forum posts do). That is to say, they get buried under a sea of other things in a very short period of time. And who is going to take the time to dig deep into the bowels of a forum's archives for 5-year-old posts or 10-year-old discussions? I sure don't.

What a huge waste of time and energy it would be to continually post in such a fashion, particularly in an Internet world where forums can come and go about as fast as a start-up airline. Take Bob Harris' now-defunct forum, for example, with all of those posts now gone into the dustbin of cyberspace. (And I thought Bob had a pretty good forum, too. Too bad all that work was wiped out when he decided it wasn't worth the effort.)

Ergo, I archive my material on my own site, where I have many articles indexed on the main page for easy access.

Simple as that.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-791.html#Archiving-Discussions

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(NOTE --- The above 2014 posts were written prior to the 2018 hacking incident,
so I can no longer link to the original thread here at Duncan's forum.)


Not everything uttered by every CTer in every discussion is going to get moved over to my own blog site,

The stuff I save on my site is mainly for the purpose of archiving MY OWN words and MY OWN Kennedy arguments. And what better place to archive one's own material than at their own site (or blog)?

Storing only your own words and Kennedy arguments on your own blog would be no problem. But that's not what you do. You actually select words and Kennedy arguments from others, from a wider conversation, in accordance with what you like and in doing so you purposely misrepresent what the other people have said in order to present a completely untrue version of the actual conversation. By editing out the parts you don't like you can steer any discussion in any direction and always (and that's the real reason for it) come out the "winner" of the argument. It's the way propaganda works.

As soon as you decide that you are going to copy/paste a conversation with a third party, you should have the decency and, quite honestly, the obligation to present the arguments from both side in a truthful and complete manner. It's either that or not use third party conversations with others at all.

The portions of any Internet forum discussion that I copy to my website are almost always only the portions that I myself have CHOSEN to participate in --- and no more than that. If I have chosen not to respond to various points being made in the same thread, then (naturally) there will be nothing in those particular sections of a discussion that I would have a desire to transfer over to my site --- because my main goal at my site is to archive my own comments and posts

Thank you admitting so clearly that you distort and edit other people's posts in accordance with what you like. It is the epiphany of dishonesty and demonstrates a complete and utter disrespect for the people whose words you use to fabricate a conversation that actually never happened that way. The Education Forum was right to ban you and if you ask me, Duncan should do the same here. Why? Because if he doesn't, members here might think twice of having a discussion and risk being misrepresented on a blog, where they have no right of reply. That's why.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 10:35:46 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #216 on: June 25, 2022, 09:45:55 PM »


Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #217 on: June 25, 2022, 10:31:45 PM »
Quote from: Martin Weidmann
Storing only your own words and Kennedy arguments on your own blog would be no problem. But that's not what you do.
You actually select words and Kennedy arguments from others, from a wider conversation, in accordance with what you like...

Which is precisely what everybody does at every JFK forum that has ever existed, and you surely know it.

Everybody picks & chooses "select words and Kennedy arguments" from "wider conversations" that they wish to respond to (i.e., "in accordance with what [the forum member likes]").

Has there ever been a member of a forum (any forum) that hasn't done precisely that?

And if your response to this is going to be....

But most of those forum members don't then copy their discussions to their own blog.

....I'd then remind you that I have always made a great effort to make links available on all of my webpages that point directly back to the original and complete forum discussion(s) (if such original links are still available online).


Quote from: Martin Weidmann
...and in doing so you purposely misrepresent what the other people have said in order to present a completely untrue version of the actual conversation.

It's my opinion that the above comment by Martin Weidmann is 100% B.S.!

"Completely untrue version..." ??

Such slander should not be permitted at this forum. The above three words are utterly ridiculous and outrageous....and, of course, totally false.

I was treated to similar B.S. about "distortion" and "misrepresentation" at the EF forum too. The moderator/owner of that forum (James R. Gordon) was even silly enough to utter the following absurdities:

JAMES R. GORDON -- "It appears to me that the material DVP copies is taken out of context. .... In doing that he is clearly changing what the EF members originally thought and believe and therefore DVP has changed what EF members posted on this forum."

DAVID V.P. -- "I strongly resent such a charge. Furthermore, it's a really stupid charge in the first place. Since I am merely taking verbatim quotes from the EF forum over to my own site, Gordon must actually think I'm some sort of Houdini or David Copperfield, in that I am apparently able to take those verbatim CTer quotes and (somehow) change the entire belief structure of the conspiracy theorist being quoted. Even though, keep in mind, the quotes are the EXACT VERBATIM WORDS that were written by the CTer at the EF forum before I copied them to another Internet location. I guess I'm more powerful than I thought! Unbelievable! In other words --- James R. Gordon is full of s**t. It appears to me as if he has been significantly influenced by the other conspiracy theorists at the EF forum who also contend that I have taken things "out of context" and have literally "changed" what CTers have posted at the EF forum. But regardless of which CTer utters such garbage, it's still going to be garbage (and a lie)."

JAMES R. GORDON -- "DVP has two opinions. There are the posts he used to make here on threads here. Then there is the opinion that is shaped by him - using EF members contributions - to create a narrative on another website for which we have no editing rights. And the narrative on his site does not reflect what was originally said on this website."

DAVID V.P. -- "More lies. .... Plus, Gordon should re-read this comment I aimed at him earlier today at the EF forum ---- "With regard to the particular JFK sub-topics that I have chosen to engage various CTers on...I have "changed" NOTHING that was in any original quote written by any CTer on The Education Forum." -- DVP ---- And the bunk about me having "two opinions" on various JFK matters is just...well...bizarre (to say the least). Where on this Earth did Gordon get the idea that my basic "opinions" about any aspect of the JFK murder case somehow change between the time I post my thoughts at The Education Forum and when I re-post those EXACT SAME VERBATIM COMMENTS at my website? The only response I can possibly muster after reading such a bizarre allegation is this one....WTF?"
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 11:04:19 PM by David Von Pein »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #218 on: June 25, 2022, 10:42:01 PM »
Not everything uttered by every CTer in every discussion is going to get moved over to my own blog site,

Especially the parts that refute you or make you look bad. This is, after all, purely an exercise in ego.

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #218 on: June 25, 2022, 10:42:01 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #219 on: June 25, 2022, 11:04:08 PM »

Which is precisely what everybody does at every JFK forum that has ever existed, and you surely know it.

Everybody picks & chooses "select words and Kennedy arguments" from "wider conversations" that they wish to respond to (i.e., "in accordance with what [the forum member likes]").

Has there ever been a member of a forum (any forum) that hasn't done precisely that?

Yes, there are members here who select very carefully what they respond to, but not all of them. And the fact that two people having a conversation sometimes do not fully answer the other person's question is a completely other matter than you selecting the words of the other and posting it, out of context, in a blog where the other has no possibility of reply.

Quote

And if your response to this is going to be....

But most of those forum members don't then copy their discussions to their own blog.

....I'd then remind you that I have always made a great effort to make links available on all of my webpages that point directly back to the original and complete forum discussion(s) (if such original links are still available online).


Which of course is a cheap excuse as the main reason you give for storing information in your own blog is to safeguard against disappearance.

Your words;

"Why on Earth would people want to use up hundreds of hours of their time to write up posts for an Internet forum, only to run the high risk that those posts will vanish into nothingness in just a short time? "

So, you're quite happy to risk that the original conversations you post a link to "vanish into nothingness" as long as what you want people to take away from your own blog remains.

Quote
It's my opinion that the above comment by Martin Weidmann is 100% B.S.!

"Completely untrue version..." ??

Such slander should not be permitted at this forum. The above three words are utterly ridiculous and outrageous....and, of course, totally false.


When you edit the words of somebody else and leave out, sometimes vital parts, what you don't like, you do indeed create a completely untrue version of the conversation. Case in point; when I confronted you with the logic of the Markham/Bowley/Callaway timeline as apparent from the circumstantial evidence you not only bailed out of the conversation but completely and purposely omitted that entire argument from your blog, thus presenting a completely untrue version of the actual conversation.

Quote
I was treated to similar B.S. about "distortion" and "misrepresentation" at the EF forum too. The moderator/owner of that forum (James R. Gordon) was even silly enough to utter the following absurdities:

JAMES R. GORDON -- "It appears to me that the material DVP copies is taken out of context. .... In doing that he is clearly changing what the EF members originally thought and believe and therefore DVP has changed what EF members posted on this forum."

DAVID V.P. -- "I strongly resent such a charge. Furthermore, it's a really stupid charge in the first place. Since I am merely taking verbatim quotes from the EF forum over to my own site, Gordon must actually think I'm some sort of Houdini or David Copperfield, in that I am apparently able to take those verbatim CTer quotes and (somehow) change the entire belief structure of the conspiracy theorist being quoted. Even though, keep in mind, the quotes are the EXACT VERBATIM WORDS that were written by the CTer at the EF forum before I copied them to another Internet location. I guess I'm more powerful than I thought! Unbelievable! In other words --- James R. Gordon is full of s**t. It appears to me as if he has been significantly influenced by the other conspiracy theorists at the EF forum who also contend that I have taken things "out of context" and have literally "changed" what CTers have posted at the EF forum. But regardless of which CTer utters such garbage, it's still going to be garbage (and a lie)."

JAMES R. GORDON -- "DVP has two opinions. There are the posts he used to make here on threads here. Then there is the opinion that is shaped by him - using EF members contributions - to create a narrative on another website for which we have no editing rights. And the narrative on his site does not reflect what was originally said on this website."

DAVID V.P. -- "More lies. .... Plus, Gordon should re-read this comment I aimed at him earlier today at the EF forum ---- "With regard to the particular JFK sub-topics that I have chosen to engage various CTers on...I have "changed" NOTHING that was in any original quote written by any CTer on The Education Forum." -- DVP ---- And the bunk about me having "two opinions" on various JFK matters is just...well...bizarre (to say the least). Where on this Earth did Gordon get the idea that my basic "opinions" about any aspect of the JFK murder case somehow change between the time I post my thoughts at The Education Forum and when I re-post those EXACT SAME VERBATIM COMMENTS at my website? The only response I can possibly muster after reading such a bizarre allegation is this one....WTF?"

Sorry, not interested in any conversation you may have had on another forum, because it is painfully obvious that I can not rely on it being a complete and/or accurate representation of what was really said.

Just one comment; I'm clearly not the only one who has accused you of this kind of dishonesty. Just how many people need to complain about before you stop misrepresenting the words of others?

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #220 on: June 25, 2022, 11:06:22 PM »

Especially the parts that refute you or make you look bad. This is, after all, purely an exercise in ego.


Indeed. That's why his blog is propaganda based on misrepresentation of what others have said.

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #220 on: June 25, 2022, 11:06:22 PM »


Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #221 on: June 25, 2022, 11:16:16 PM »
Quote from: Martin Weidmann
So, you're quite happy to risk that the original conversations you post a link to "vanish into nothingness" as long as what you want people to take away from your own blog remains.

You're being silly here, Martin. I have no control whatsoever over the fate of any JFK forum. So that's a "risk" I have no choice but to take (if I choose to post on a forum). Which is kind of the whole point of my wanting to preserve my own posts at an Internet location that I can control (until Google or Blogger go down the tubes at any rate, which isn't very likely).
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 11:18:47 PM by David Von Pein »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #222 on: June 25, 2022, 11:23:22 PM »
You're being silly here, Martin. I have no control whatsoever over the fate of any JFK forum. Which is kind of the whole point of my wanting to preserve my own posts at an Internet location that I can control (until Google or Blogger go down the tubes at any rate, which isn't very likely).

You're being silly here, Martin. I have no control whatsoever over the fate of any JFK forum.

That's not the point. In your holier than thou approach, you try to justify your editing of other people's words on your blog with the poor excuse that you always post a link to the whole conversation. You are doing so in the full knowledge that the original conversation can vanish, where your blog will survive, along with the edited versions of what others have actually said.

It is really very simple; don't use the words of others on your blog (without their consent) or post all of it. What you do is dishonest, a misrepresentation of the facts, and btw and admission of the weakness of your own arguments. Ever thought about that, have you?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 11:29:13 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #223 on: June 25, 2022, 11:38:14 PM »
James Gordon is right and so is Martin Weidmann. By selectively leaving out parts of the conversation, you are creating a false narrative. That is nothing like selecting what portions of a forum post to respond to in your own post to the same forum, for the simple reason that the entire post and the context is right there in the same forum for all to see. Somebody who stumbles onto your blog or clicks on a link that you post elsewhere is not getting the complete context of what was said, but they are still associating people’s names with your carefully curated version of the conversation. That’s neither fair nor honest.

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #223 on: June 25, 2022, 11:38:14 PM »