The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)

[John Iacoletti]

And how many of Vincent Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence would you say are "not evidence at all"?

I wrote a post on that before the forum restart.  As I recall, 8 of the 53 were actual evidence.  Bugliosi goes down the rabbit-hole of ridiculousness even more than you do.  His evidence of murder includes Oswald not being chatty with the cab driver and holding up his handcuffed hands to reporters.  Of the 8, some implicated a weapon rather than a shooter, one was fingerprints on boxes which was not at all remarkable given that Oswald's job was literally removing books from boxes, and the remaining were all questionable or tainted in some way (unfair lineups, chains of custody, etc).

[John Iacoletti]

The list shows how straight up desperate whackjob Vince was and ech of them can be dismissed in 5 seconds by anyone with basic knowledge of the case.

Like #17: there is zero evidence of Oswald ever boarding a bus to whatever rooming house he allegedly lived at.

Embarrassing to even post that link.

And even if Oswald did board a bus, how is that evidence of murder?

It's evidence of murder when you don't have actual evidence of murder.

[David Von Pein]

Well, as I understand the argument, it was the way he boarded the bus as opposed to his every day way of boarding the bus, of which no evidence is provided, that proves his guilt - - LOL

The key part of that "bus" item that CTers will apparently never grasp is that Oswald, on Nov. 22, decided he would walk several blocks east of his workplace to catch a bus, instead of just waiting for his Beckley Avenue bus at the bus stop which is located right on the corner of Elm & Houston. (And isn't it fairly reasonable to conclude that on days other than 11/22/63 [not counting Fridays when he went to Irving with Buell Frazier] Oswald very likely DID board his bus at the bus stop at Elm and Houston Streets? I'd say so.)

So several of the items on Vincent Bugliosi's 53-item list are things like that -- i.e., items which emphasize the Change In Behavior that Oswald exhibited on November 21st and 22nd, 1963. And, IMO, that type of circumstantial "evidence" should most definitely be included when constructing a list like the ones prepared by Vince Bugliosi and myself.

[Paul J Cummings]

Is it fairly reasonable based on what? When he couldn't get a ride from Frazier?

The key part of that "bus" item that CTers will apparently never grasp is that Oswald, on Nov. 22, decided he would walk several blocks east of his workplace to catch a bus, instead of just waiting for his bus at the bus stop which is located right on the corner of Elm & Houston. (And isn't it fairly reasonable to conclude that on days other than 11/22/63 Oswald very likely DID board his bus at the bus stop at Elm and Houston Streets? I'd say so.)

So several of the items on Vincent Bugliosi's 53-item list are things like that -- i.e., the "Complete Change In Behavior" items that Oswald exhibited on November 21st and 22nd, 1963. And, IMO, that type of circumstantial "evidence" is most definitely appropriate to put on a list like the ones constructed by Vince Bugliosi (and myself).

[David Von Pein]

But we certainly could never do without yours, right?

Sure you can.

I just follow the actual evidence in the case, Martin. That's all.

No. You selectively follow the evidence and deliberately ignore all the problems with that evidence.

And just because I choose to believe that the evidence in the case has not all been faked and/or manufactured (and therefore my belief is that Lee Oswald was not "just a patsy"), I am accused of "conducting a bogus propaganda campaign".

And my OPINION is to be considered a "bogus propaganda campaign", but your OPINION, however, is not to be considered "propaganda" in the slightest way. Is that it, St. Martin?

You can believe whatever you want. The difference between your opinion and mine is that I am in no way trying to convince anybody of anything, where you have blogs (where you misrepresent and manipulate other people's postings on forums like this) and You Tube channels to desperately try to convince as many people as you can that there was no conspiracy. That's why you run a bogus propaganda campaign and I don't.

I strongly disagree with your "bogus propaganda" and "misrepresent and manipulate" and "deliberately ignore all the problems with that evidence" assessments. I do not believe I belong in those categories at all. But everybody is entitled to have their own opinions. And yours are duly noted.

[David Von Pein]

How would the Marsalis bus take him to his rooming house?

It wouldn't. And, of course, that very fact is part of the "Oswald's Change In Behavior" point that Vince Bugliosi was making in that 17th item in his "Summary Of Oswald's Guilt" book chapter:

"17. After exiting the front door of the Book Depository Building, if Oswald hadn't just murdered the president but still wanted to go home, he only had to turn left on the sidewalk in front of the building, cross Houston, and wait for the Beckley bus, which stopped at the northeast corner of Houston and Elm. This is the same bus that he took every weekday to and from work. .... But instead of waiting at the bus stop at Houston and Elm for his Beckley bus, Oswald walked past the bus stop and continued walking east on Elm, apparently wanting to get as far away as he could and looking for the very first Oak Cliff bus that came along, eventually boarding the Marsalis bus, which was proceeding westbound on Elm about seven blocks from the Book Depository Building. But the closest the Marsalis bus could possibly take him to where he lived was Marsalis and Fifth Street, requiring him, if he had stayed on the bus, to walk five blocks to the west and one block north to get to his home. Why would Oswald take a bus that he knew couldn't take him closer than a half mile from his home (when he knew the next bus, the Beckley bus, would take him to his front door) if he weren't in a frenzied flight from the scene of where he had done something terrible?" -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 959 of "Reclaiming History"

[David Von Pein]

No, it's beyond stupid to expect Oswald to hang out on that street corner for the next hour, waiting to be recognised and picked up by the police.

Exactly.

And it's nice to see an Internet CTer actually admitting that Sweet Patsy Lee Harvey Oswald must have done at least something illegal on Nov. 22, otherwise why would he be the slightest bit concerned about being "picked up by the police"?

Thanks for that admission, Otto.

[Martin Weidmann]

Exactly.

And it's nice to see an Internet CTer actually admitting that Sweet Patsy Lee Harvey Oswald must have done at least something illegal on Nov. 22, otherwise why would he be the slightest bit concerned about being "picked up by the police".

Thanks for that admission, Otto.

We don't know if he was concerned about being picked up by the police. Even if he wasn't concerned about that why would he hang around to wait for a bus that due to what was going on wouldn't probably come for some time.

But while we are on the subject of doing stupid things; why would a guy, who allegedly is on the run, not jump of the next bus out of town and instead take a taxi (being willing to give it up for a woman) and then, after a brief visit to his rooming house, talk walk down to a a dead go nowhere street in the middle of a suburban area? That's something no LN have even been able to provide a plausible or believable answer for. What in the world is a guy on the run doing there and why was he in such a hurry to get there?