The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)

[Paul J Cummings]

The two sources Von Pein uses are the WC report and VB which are garbage. "AG Katzenbach stated the following "The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial." That's the premise of how they started investigating Oswald. If your research is nothing more than WC and VB then I suggest reading "Case Closed." At least you would have completed the hat trick on the laughable authors of the case. The WC, VB and Posner the three stooges of the Kennedy Assassination.

[Martin Weidmann]

Let's see what every CTer's favorite human on the Earth, the late Vince Bugliosi, said about the topic of Helen Markham's bus schedule....

--- Quote On: ---

"Although an FBI report (CD 630[h]) says that Helen Markham’s bus, per the Dallas Transit System, came by each day “at about 1:12 p.m.,” not 1:15 p.m., I tend to doubt the 1:12 time for two reasons. Number one, the FBI never nailed down which of two separate buses Markham could have taken at Jefferson and Patton, not asking her what corner at the intersection she got on her bus.

Apparently, only one of the buses was scheduled to come by at 1:12, and the FBI never even alluded to the existence of another bus that stopped at a different corner of the intersection and would also have taken Markham downtown by a more indirect route (Myers, 'With Malice', p.597 footnote 154; CD 1128, p.3). Much more importantly, Markham, when asked by Warren Commission counsel, “You know what time you usually get your bus, don’t you?” she answered “1:15” (3 H 306).

And in an earlier FBI interview she said the bus came by at 1:15 p.m. (CD 630[c], p.1). Why in the world would she say 1:15 if it was 1:12? We know that Markham was not a bright woman, but she was smart enough to hold down a job as a waitress, where one has to deal with numbers on a customer’s bill, and smart enough to get to work every day.

It requires NO intelligence to read a watch or clock, and though the Dallas Transit System advised the FBI that the bus was scheduled to come at 1:12, I find it very hard to believe it routinely came by at that time. If it did, with Markham thinking it came by at 1:15, I wonder how she didn’t miss the bus a lot and was able to keep her job." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 44 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I have no idea why you, Ben Holmes, think anyone has to label Bugliosi a "liar" in this "bus schedule" regard. It seems to me that Vince pretty much AGREES with Bud's analysis on this thing --- i.e., both Bud and Vince B. agree that Helen Markham must not have actually been trying to catch a "1:12" bus. Both Bud and Vince think she caught her usual bus LATER than 1:12.

Why are you so anxious to hang a "liar" label on Vincent Bugliosi at every turn in the road? He didn't "LIE" at all about this bus schedule thing. He was giving his OPINION about Markham's testimony and FBI statements. And those opinions make a lot of sense to me. Why doesn't this VB logic make sense to you, Ben?....

"It requires NO intelligence to read a watch or clock, and though the Dallas Transit System advised the FBI that the bus was scheduled to come at 1:12, I find it very hard to believe it routinely came by at that time. If it did, with Markham thinking it came by at 1:15, I wonder how she didn’t miss the bus a lot and was able to keep her job." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

If presented with the analysis that Bud provided, Vince Bugliosi would very likely have been able to accept the "1:26" timing for Markham's bus arrival.

The reason why Bugliosi had trouble accepting the 1:12 time is because if that time were ACTUALLY CORRECT, it would mean that Mrs. Markham would have missed her bus most of the time (if we're to also accept as fact that she caught her bus at 1:15 PM each day). And how likely is it that she was constantly missing the 1:12 bus because she just refused to get there in time? Not very likely, is it?

So, of course, Vince could very easily accept a wider differential in time, because it would mean Markham wouldn't be missing her bus every single day.

Makes sense, doesn't it Holmes? Or would you rather continue your daily habit of being an obnoxious prick by calling me a "GUTLESS liar" one or two more times before this day is done?

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

You're nuts. .... Who would routinely get to a bus stop at 1:15 to try and catch a 1:12 bus? That's why Bugliosi had doubts about the "1:12" time.

My guess is that Helen Markham very likely timed it so that she would be at the Jefferson & Patton bus stop at approximately 1:15 every day, and she would (of course) then catch the next bus to come by that was going downtown (whenever that was, at 1:22, or 1:26, whenever). That way, she would be a little early to catch the next bus. Makes sense to me anyway. And the FBI report in CD630 clearly indicates that "the bus is scheduled to pass this point [at Patton and Jefferson] at about 1:12 PM and every ten minutes thereafter."

So it's fairly clear that if Mrs. Markham didn't catch the 1:12 bus, she could have caught another bus at about 1:22 or 1:32. And since she didn't have to be at work until 2:30 PM, there was plenty of time to spare, even if she had to take one of those later busses.

But it makes no sense for her to regularly get to the bus stop at 1:15 if she was really trying to catch a 1:12 bus. That's crazy.

Where in my question did I mention that Markham was trying to catch the 1.12 bus? It doesn't make a damned bit of difference. She estimated in her testimony that she "got her bus" at 1.15. That could be either a delayed 1.12 (busses do not always run exactly on time) or the 1.22 bus.

The fact is that she, in her mind, needed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson at 1.15 to take her regular bus to work every day. That's why she left home at around 1.06 or 1.07. The two blocks/five minute walk would have gotten her to the bus stop a couple of minutes before 1.15 and thus on time to get on either the 1.12 or 1.22 bus.

Nowhere do you address the fact that Markham still was at 10th/Patton at around 1.14/1.15, if that's when the shooting took place, when by then she should have been at the bus stop on Jefferson.

My guess is that Helen Markham very likely timed it so that she would be at the Jefferson & Patton bus stop at approximately 1:15 every day,

Exactly, so how could she witness the shooting of Tippit, on 10th street, if it really happened at 1.14 / 1.15. The logical answer is of course that she couldn't. If she got to her bus stop on Jefferson at around 1.15, then she could only have witnessed the events on 10th street if they had happened at around 1.11 or 1.12 at the latest.

Care to try again, to explain how Markham came to be at 10th/Patton at 1.14 / 1.15, when she should have been at the bus stop on Jefferson?

[Paul J Cummings]

Yeah Markham was a cool, calm and collected person after Tippit was shot. 

[Martin Weidmann]

Markham?

Even a screwball is capable of doing some things correctly, John.

You can clearly type and Markham can clearly tell time and get to her bus on time.

How about we look at the actual eyewitnesses who encountered the murdering Oswald.

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. V DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. Did you recognize anyone in that room?
Mrs. B DAVIS. Yes, sir. I recognized number 2.

Mr. CALLAWAY. No. And he said, "We want to be sure, we want to try to wrap him up real tight on killing this officer. We think he is the same one that shot the President. But if we can wrap him up tight on killing this officer, we have got him." So they brought four men in.
I stepped to the back of the room, so I could kind of see him from the same distance which I had seen him before. And when he came out, I knew him.
Mr. BALL. You mean he looked like the same man?
Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. GUINYARD. I was looking--trying to see and after I heard the third shot, then Oswald came through on Patton running---came right through the yard in front of the big white house---there's a big two-story white house---there's two of them there and he come through the one right on the corner of Patton.

Mr. LIEBELER. Let me show you some pictures that we have here. I show you a picture that has been marked Garner Exhibit No. 1 and ask you if that is the man that you saw going down the street on the 22d of November as you have already told us.
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Four? Did any one of the people look anything like strike that. Did you identify anyone in the lineup?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I identified the one we are talking about, Oswald. I identified him.

RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.
 
Mr. BALL. What about number two, what did you mean when you said number two?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

The eyewitnesses who confirmed he was carrying a gun.

Mr. BALL. Which way?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.


Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. And how was he holding the gun?
Mr. CALLAWAY. We used to say in the Marine Corps in a raised pistol position.

Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?

Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good.

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line.

Mr. BELIN. Did he have anything in his hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had a pistol in his left hand.

Jack Tatum
Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street.

When 5 people watch a car accident, you'll get 5 different stories about what actually happened. Eye witness testimony is the most unreliable type of evidence.

Yet here we are to believe that all these witnesses got everything right. Go figure.... But since you seem to believe that, would you be interested in buying a nice bridge in London?

[Martin Weidmann]

Either Oswald looked like the guy they saw or he didn't

Would you care to pay me $1 for every person who was unjustly convicted based upon flawed eyewitness identification?

[Bill Chapman]

You mean the transfer they didn’t “find” until hours after he was arrested and searched?

You mean the Mary Bledsoe whose evidence that she rented a room to Oswald was a calendar page that her son sold? The Mary Bledsoe who somehow saw a photo of Rachel before she was born?

You mean the William Whaley who picked his passenger up at 12:30 and described him as wearing a blue khaki workman uniform and two jackets?

You mean the transfer they didn’t “find” until hours after he was arrested and searched?

You mean the Mary Bledsoe whose evidence that she rented a room to Oswald was a calendar page that her son sold? The Mary Bledsoe who somehow saw a photo of Rachel before she was born?

You mean the William Whaley who picked his passenger up at 12:30 and described him as wearing a blue khaki workman uniform and two jackets?

Do you mean the Rachel you claimed was too old to need Ruth around to help out?
Do you mean the transfer that was found flat, and therefore unnoticed, in his breast pocket?
Do you mean the Whaley who used a quarter-hour time slot... which in this case would cover the 12:30-12:45 slot?
Do you mean Bledsoe is lying, and if so, can you tell us what would that be in aid of?

What you are doing is casting a wide net over everything under the sun and hoping something sticks

[Paul J Cummings]

Oh please they couldn't find it because it was flat? He was accused of killing Tippit and your answer is they just didn't look hard enough is quite comical. As for Whaley not a single witness saw Oswald with him. NOT ONE. So what if he used a quarter time slot? That puts Oswald in the cab based upon one written piece of evidence after the assassination? FOUR people witnessed Oswald getting in the Rambler. How many reported seeing Oswald in the cab?

Do you mean the transfer that was found flat, and therefore unnoticed, in his breast pocket?
Do you mean the Whaley who used a quarter-hour time slot... which in this case would cover the 12:30-12:45 slot?

[John Iacoletti]

"There is a simple fact of life that Warren Commission critics and conspiracy theorists either don't realize or fail to take into consideration, something I learned from my experience as a prosecutor; namely, that you cannot be innocent and yet still have a prodigious amount of highly incriminating evidence against you.

“Highly incriminating evidence”. LOL.