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Author Topic: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)  (Read 36109 times)

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #200 on: June 23, 2022, 05:05:36 AM »
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And I have done that repeatedly. Your arguments rely on unsubstantiated assumptions.
If by "I have done that repeatedly," you mean:

 -- Trying to rely on Bowles' unsubstantiated speculations as some kind of Get Out of Jail Free card
 -- Playing dumb about what I've argued in this particular case
 -- Putting scare quotes around the term regression analysis because you know nothing about the fairly common statistical technique, or how it's been used in the JFK case
 -- lame eye-rolling
 -- making oblique, nebulous, and unexplained references to Francis Cason talking about different clocks that Bowles.

you have definitely managed the feat. And that's about all you've managed. You haven't actually rebutted anything I've argued. Just pretended to. 

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #200 on: June 23, 2022, 05:05:36 AM »


Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #201 on: June 23, 2022, 05:18:06 AM »
And, despite his claims to the contrary, he never will. It's made up out of thin air.
The best that you can do at this point is to make a completely unsubstantiated claim that I've made it all up. And you do it in this passive-aggressive I-won't-say-it-to-him-but-I'll-say-it-about-him-where-he-can-hear-it way common to sniffy teen-aged girls. Nice

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #202 on: June 23, 2022, 07:27:44 AM »
Mitch, who are you trying to fool?

- you’ve claimed the dispatcher time checks were accurate when Bowles said they were not

- you’ve pretended the Hertz clock is accurate even though there’s no evidence it was.

- you’ve pretended that Dave Powers’ memory of what his watch said must be correct and precise.

- you’ve posited Chanel 1/2 “simulcasts” while providing no supporting evidence.

- you’ve claimed that portions of the extant recordings are continuous without providing any supporting evidence other than vague references to “regression analysis”.

- you’ve pretended that the time of Tippit’s death can somehow be determined from inaccurate time announcements made an unknown amount of time after the fact.

- you’ve wasted everybody’s time with your holier-than-thou arrogance.

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #202 on: June 23, 2022, 07:27:44 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)
« Reply #203 on: June 23, 2022, 11:48:43 AM »
Mitch, who are you trying to fool?

- you’ve claimed the dispatcher time checks were accurate when Bowles said they were not

- you’ve pretended the Hertz clock is accurate even though there’s no evidence it was.

- you’ve pretended that Dave Powers’ memory of what his watch said must be correct and precise.

- you’ve posited Chanel 1/2 “simulcasts” while providing no supporting evidence.

- you’ve claimed that portions of the extant recordings are continuous without providing any supporting evidence other than vague references to “regression analysis”.

- you’ve pretended that the time of Tippit’s death can somehow be determined from inaccurate time announcements made an unknown amount of time after the fact.

- you’ve wasted everybody’s time with your holier-than-thou arrogance.

- you’ve wasted everybody’s time with your holier-than-thou arrogance.

hear! hear!

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Markham's Bus
« Reply #204 on: June 25, 2022, 12:49:41 AM »
It's not really something requiring discussion. Your calculations did not factor in the time between the end of Bowley's transmission and the "603,602 1:19" transmission. This is simply a fact. As a direct result of this mistake, your assertion that the first "1:19" timestamp occurs at 1:18:35 is simply wrong, and it is wrong no matter what you think happened before 1:16.

It's a pity you allowed yourself to be distracted from this point.

Martin and John fail to realise that "real time" is utterly meaningless in this case.
There is no way to corroborate that any watch/clock is synchronised with whatever is to be regarded as the representation of "real time" [the USNO master clock according to John].
No Unassailable Fact or Absolute Truth can be determined from the available evidence regarding the Tme in this case, we are in the subjective realms of Common Sense and Reasonable Doubt.

There are three Times to consider:

Police Time - the timestamps called out by the police radio dispatchers on channels 1 and 2
Dealey Time - the clocks/watches in Dealey Plaza and any witness evidence regarding times
Patton Time - the clocks/watches around Patton and 10th, plus any witness evidence regarding times.

The events in Dealey Plaza are connected to those around Patton and 10th by the police radio. An example would be Bowley's call on the radio in Tippit's car being heard by Hill, Owens, Sawyer and Alexander stood in front of the TSBD building.
Martin's argument is that there is a 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Patton Time.
If this is the case there must be a similar 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Dealey Time.
However, the available evidence supports the view that no such discrepancy exists.

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Re: Markham's Bus
« Reply #204 on: June 25, 2022, 12:49:41 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Markham's Bus
« Reply #205 on: June 25, 2022, 01:28:59 AM »
It's a pity you allowed yourself to be distracted from this point.

Martin and John fail to realise that "real time" is utterly meaningless in this case.
There is no way to corroborate that any watch/clock is synchronised with whatever is to be regarded as the representation of "real time" [the USNO master clock according to John].
No Unassailable Fact or Absolute Truth can be determined from the available evidence regarding the Tme in this case, we are in the subjective realms of Common Sense and Reasonable Doubt.

There are three Times to consider:

Police Time - the timestamps called out by the police radio dispatchers on channels 1 and 2
Dealey Time - the clocks/watches in Dealey Plaza and any witness evidence regarding times
Patton Time - the clocks/watches around Patton and 10th, plus any witness evidence regarding times.

The events in Dealey Plaza are connected to those around Patton and 10th by the police radio. An example would be Bowley's call on the radio in Tippit's car being heard by Hill, Owens, Sawyer and Alexander stood in front of the TSBD building.
Martin's argument is that there is a 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Patton Time.
If this is the case there must be a similar 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Dealey Time.
However, the available evidence supports the view that no such discrepancy exists.

The events in Dealey Plaza are connected to those around Patton and 10th by the police radio.

That would be the case if the recordings of the police radio were indeed continuously, which they were not. Also not to be ignored is a sliced tape at 1:12:15 that nobody knows how long the gap really is.

Martin's argument is that there is a 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Patton Time.
If this is the case there must be a similar 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Dealey Time.
However, the available evidence supports the view that no such discrepancy exists.


What available evidence would that be?

There are three Times to consider:

Actually, there are a few more times to consider;

1. The time it took Markham to walk to block to take her regurar bus on Jefferson
2. The time Bowley's daughter's school bell rings
3. The time needed for Bowley and his daughter to drive 6.3 miles to get from Singing Hills to 10th street
4. The time Callaway needed to run down Patton to 10th street (less then one block)
4. The time the doctor at Methodist hospital declared Tippit D.O.A. at 1:15
5. The time Officer Davenport reported that same time of D.O.A. in two separate reports

You see, there is a sequence of events which can be linked to eachother.

After Markham left home only needed to walk one block of roughly 400 feet to get to 10th and Patton. When she arrived there she stopped to let a couple of cars pass by. She then saw a man walking east followed by a slow driving police car. Less than 30 seconds later shots were fired. Callaway heard those shots and then saw a man running towards him on Patton. When the men turned onto Jefferson, Callaway ran less than one block to the scene of the shooting. When he arrived, Bowley was already there and had already made his 48 seconds long radio call.

Now, here's the thing; Bowley said he picked up his daughter at school at 12:55, but let's say that he was there and waited for the girl until the school bell rang at 1:00. He then went to pick up his wife from work, on 9th street. He used Marsalis Ave and drove a verifiable total of 6.3 miles, which at a normal speed of 30 miles per hour would have taken him 12 minutes. We know for a fact that he arrived between Tippit being shot and Callaway arriving on the scene. He said he looket at his watch and it said 1:10, but let's for argument's sake say that his watch was off by 2 minutes and it really was 1:12. Taking in consideration that Bowley needed 48 seconds to make his radio call, it is a fair assumption that he probably arrived at the scene around 1 minute after the shooting. Markham was there roughly 1 or 1,5 minutes before the shooting after walking one block of 400 feet in about 2,5 to 3 minutes. It's not 100% perfect, but the time Markham said she left home, at 1:06 or 1:07 fits perfectly into this time line.

So, for Tippit not to be shot at around 1:10, this entire block of evidence needs to shift in time by several minutes, resulting in Bowley needed at least 17 minutes to drive 6.3 miles and Markham being at the scene at the time she was supposed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson to get her regular bus. Very unlikely.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Markham's Bus
« Reply #206 on: June 25, 2022, 01:45:05 AM »
The events in Dealey Plaza are connected to those around Patton and 10th by the police radio.

That would be the case if the recordings of the police radio were indeed continuously, which they were not. Also not to be ignored is a sliced tape at 1:12:15 that nobody knows how long the gap really is.

Just to clarify - you do agree that when Hill, Sawyer etc., stood out front of the TSBD building, hear Bowley's call on the police radio, that Bowley is sat in Tippit's car at that moment?

Quote
Martin's argument is that there is a 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Patton Time.
If this is the case there must be a similar 5 minute discrepancy between Police Time [channel 1] and Dealey Time.
However, the available evidence supports the view that no such discrepancy exists.


What available evidence would that be?

Much of it has been presented elsewhere regarding synchronising Dealey Time with Police Time and synchronising Channel 1 with Channel 2. You, yourself have taken part in discussions involving this evidence.

Quote
There are three Times to consider:

Actually, there are a few more times to consider;

1. The time it took Markham to walk to block to take her regurar bus on Jefferson
2. The time Bowley's daughter's school bell rings
3. The time needed for Bowley and his daughter to drive 6.3 miles to get from Singing Hills to 10th street
4. The time Callaway needed to run down Patton to 10th street (less then one block)
4. The time the doctor at Methodist hospital declared Tippit D.O.A. at 1:15
5. The time Officer Davenport reported that same time of D.O.A. in two separate reports

I would consider all these as part of what I am loosely calling Patton Time

Quote
You see, there is a sequence of events which can be linked to each other.

This is equally true for events in Dealey Plaza

Quote
After Markham left home only needed to walk one block of roughly 400 feet to get to 10th and Patton. When she arrived there she stopped to let a couple of cars pass by. She then saw a man walking east followed by a slow driving police car. Less than 30 seconds later shots were fired. Callaway heard those shots and then saw a man running towards him on Patton. When the men turned onto Jefferson, Callaway ran less than one block to the scene of the shooting. When he arrived, Bowley was already there and had already made his 48 seconds long radio call.

Now, here's the thing; Bowley said he picked up his daughter at school at 12:55, but let's say that he was there and waited for the girl until the school bell rang at 1:00. He then went to pick up his wife from work, on 9th street. He used Marsalis Ave and drove a verifiable total of 6.3 miles, which at a normal speed of 30 miles per hour would have taken him 12 minutes. We know for a fact that he arrived between Tippit being shot and Callaway arriving on the scene. He said he looket at his watch and it said 1:10, but let's for argument's sake say that his watch was off by 2 minutes and it really was 1:12. Taking in consideration that Bowley needed 48 seconds to make his radio call, it is a fair assumption that he probably arrived at the scene around 1 minute after the shooting. Markham was there roughly 1 or 1,5 minutes before the shooting after walking one block of 400 feet in about 2,5 to 3 minutes. It's not 100% perfect, but the time Markham said she left home, at 1:06 or 1:07 fits perfectly into this time line.

So, for Tippit not to be shot at around 1:10, this entire block of evidence needs to shift in time by several minutes, resulting in Bowley needed at least 17 minutes to drive 6.3 miles and Markham being at the scene at the time she was supposed to be at the bus stop on Jefferson to get her regular bus. Very unlikely.

Obviously, I'm familiar with your arguments - which I find convincing.
The problem is that the scenario you're putting forward requires a five minute discrepancy between Patton Time and Police Time.
I wanted to explore this aspect of your claim, so I approached it from the angle that a similar five minute discrepancy must also be present between Police Tme and Dealey Time. I have failed to find anything that supports this claim but that doesn't mean it's not there, just that I have failed to find it.
What I have found is that the limited evidence available regarding this aspect of the case supports the view that such a discrepancy does not exist.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Markham's Bus
« Reply #207 on: June 25, 2022, 02:00:37 AM »
Just to clarify - you do agree that when Hill, Sawyer etc., stood out front of the TSBD building, hear Bowley's call on the police radio, that Bowley is sat in Tippit's car at that moment?

Much of it has been presented elsewhere regarding synchronising Dealey Time with Police Time and synchronising Channel 1 with Channel 2. You, yourself have taken part in discussions involving this evidence.

I would consider all these as part of what I am loosely calling Patton Time

This is equally true for events in Dealey Plaza

Obviously, I'm familiar with your arguments - which I find convincing.
The problem is that the scenario you're putting forward requires a five minute discrepancy between Patton Time and Police Time.
I wanted to explore this aspect of your claim, so I approached it from the angle that a similar five minute discrepancy must also be present between Police Tme and Dealey Time. I have failed to find anything that supports this claim but that doesn't mean it's not there, just that I have failed to find it.
What I have found is that the limited evidence available regarding this aspect of the case supports the view that such a discrepancy does not exist.

Just to clarify - you do agree that when Hill, Sawyer etc., stood out front of the TSBD building, hear Bowley's call on the police radio, that Bowley is sat in Tippit's car at that moment?

Please elaborate. Where did you get from that Hill, Sawyer etc heard Bowley's call standing out front of the TSBD building, and how is that even important unless you can provide a verifiable time for those men being there and hearing the call.

Edit: ignore the first question. I see it came from Hill's WC testimony. The second question becomes more relevant as Hill does not mention a time, at least not in his testimony.

The problem is that the scenario you're putting forward requires a five minute discrepancy between Patton Time and Police Time.

Roughly five minutes, yes. Have you taken in consideration that the DPD recording was interrupted, for an indefinitive period, at 1:12:15, due to a sliced tape?

What I have found is that the limited evidence available regarding this aspect of the case supports the view that such a discrepancy does not exist.

And what exactly would that available limited evidence be?

So, far I have only mentioned the sequence of events that links Markham, Bowley and Callaway together. If you assume that the DPD time stamps are accurate you need to explain what Markham was still doing at 10th/Patton at 1:14:30 when she was supposed to be at her bus stop in Jefferson around that time. Also, it needs to be explained how Bowley would have needed at least 17 minutes to drive 6.3 miles.

But that's not all. Tippit being declared D.O.A. at Methodist Hospital at 1:15 and Officer Davenport confirming that same time in to separate reports also ties in perfectly with the Markham/Bowley/Callaway sequence as the driver of the ambulance, Butler, confirms that it took him about 4 minutes to get from the Funeral home, pick up Tippit and get to the hospital.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 08:30:48 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Markham's Bus
« Reply #207 on: June 25, 2022, 02:00:37 AM »