Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie

[Alan Ford]

So!

The 'investigating' authorities know that Mr Oswald has an iron-clad alibi.

Mr Lovelady pretends---------or rather: is told by the 'investigating' authorities to pretend----------that he was the man who accompanied Mr Shelley off those steps, out to the concrete divider, and over west to the first railroad track.

But the worst case scenario is always possible: a photograph/film clearly putting Mr Oswald and no one else outside with Mr Shelley. Such that the 'It's Lovelady' line just doesn't wash.

Preemptive solution? Get Messrs Shelley & Lovelady to estimate that they didn't leave the front steps until 3-4 minutes after the shooting.

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.
Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.

Quite ridiculous, of course, but it means that not even Mr Oswald showing up outside would exonerate him. He would have had time to fire the shots, make it down to the lunchroom for his encounter with Baker/Truly, and then leave the building.

As for what Mr Shelley would say in response to the emergence of an undeniable image of Mr Oswald away from the steps (e.g. on concrete street divider; on dead-end street; over west by first railroad track)? 'With all the excitement, I just didn't notice him there. But Billy was definitely there with me, he must be somewhere out of shot in this particular photo/film.'

Fairy-tale saved! 

[Dan O'meara]

As Alan points out, there is no good reason to assume the two figures walking west on the Elm extension are Shelly and Lovelady. They don’t even appear to be walking together as one is walking faster and passes the other.

But there is even less reason to assume that the figure on the steps in black is Gloria Calvery.

I agree with the analysis of the two figures walking down Elm Street, they are clearly not walking together.
but there are plenty of reasons to assume the figure wearing black on the steps is Gloria Calvary.
In the Darnell footage it can be discerned that the figure in black is wearing what can only be a black head scarf and is linking arms with a woman wearing a white head scarf and an all white outfit. The figure in black is faced towards a man stood on the steps.
This is a very good fit with Billy Lovelady's description of Gloria Calvary running up to the steps and telling him the President had been shot. The woman in the black head scarf and, in particular, the woman in white can be identified in the Zapruder footage as standing in a position on Elm from which they can see JFK's head explode - and that is clearly what Calvary has seen.

Can Gloria and the woman in white run from this position to the TSBD steps before Baker gets there?
The answer is that this could easily be done given the distance involved.

[Dan O'meara]

Friends, I submit that all this has a simple solution:

Mr Oswald left the building twice after the assassination-----------------------------

FIRST: Immediately after the shots rang out (when he followed Mr Shelley off the steps)

SECOND: Several minutes later (when he was stopped at the front door by an officer but vouched for by Mr Truly)

Mr Shelley, for all his blatant lies, indirectly gives us the key to a crucial riddle:
Mr Oswald re-entered the building by the west door

Mr Lovelady played no role in either exit, other than that of eyewitness.

His resemblance to Mr Oswald, however, meant that he got dragged into a baloney story about being the man who accompanied Mr Shelley out front, then to the railroad yard, and then back into the building.

**

At some point in between Mr Oswald's two exits from the building, he was noticed in the small storage room near the domino room on the first floor. This was after Officer Baker & Mr Truly had come back down from the roof-------------------i.e. around the time of this scene:



 

Correct me if I'm wrong Alan, but in this scenario you are saying that Oswald isn't Prayer Man but was someone else stood on the steps who then left with Bill Shelley?

[Alan Ford]

Correct me if I'm wrong Alan, but in this scenario you are saying that Oswald isn't Prayer Man but was someone else stood on the steps who then left with Bill Shelley?

Well, three possibilities suggest themselves within this scenario:

1. Mr Oswald is the 'Prayer Man' figure in Wiegman but not the 'Prayer Man' figure in Darnell

2. Mr Oswald is standing somewhere else on the steps

3. Mr Oswald is standing behind the glass door (or at the open door) when the shots are fired, and subsequently goes down the steps and out front after Mr Shelley

I would tend towards #2

[Alan Ford]

If this is Mr Lovelady in the Darnell film-----------------



------------------then it is even possible that the man passing out Mr Danny Arce in the Couch film is none other than Mr Oswald--------------



-------------who is following Mr Shelley, who is already a ways west

[Zeon Mason]

Carolyn Arnold made no statement (as far as I know) locating herself where PM is standing in west corner of the entrance landing at the time of shots fired.

So Oswald is still the most probable candidate to be PM (imo) given the object in PM’s hand being most likely a bottle ( which Carolyn Arnold did NOT have) and given the other numerous reasons of which a primary one is the Hosty note.

At this time I see no reason to supplant a  well reasoned theory for Oswald=PM (which has explanations for improbability of being noticed by others on the front steps) , with a more convoluted theory that’s even more improbable to explain Oswald unnoticed as he’s running with Shelly !? Let alone not captured in any definitive way by camera ( as opposed to the image of PM in Darnell and Weigman)

[Alan Ford]

Carolyn Arnold made no statement (as far as I know) locating herself where PM is standing in west corner of the entrance landing at the time of shots fired.

So Oswald is still the most probable candidate to be PM (imo) given the object in PM’s hand being most likely a bottle ( which Carolyn Arnold did NOT have) and given the other numerous reasons of which a primary one is the Hosty note.

At this time I see no reason to supplant a  well reasoned theory for Oswald=PM (which has explanations for improbability of being noticed by others on the front steps) , with a more convoluted theory that’s even more improbable to explain Oswald unnoticed as he’s running with Shelly !? Let alone not captured in any definitive way by camera ( as opposed to the image of PM in Darnell and Weigman)

I take your point, Mr Mason, and have made clear a few posts back that I have by no means rejected the PM=LHO theory.

However! Four points are worth pondering:

1. Ms Arnold is not a random candidate for PM. a) Mr Shelley places her on the steps at the time of the assassination; b) Mr Ronald Fischer saw a young woman going into that entranceway very shortly before the motorcade arrived in Dealey Plaza. 2+2 may equal 4 here-----------a possibility that is all the more live as we have no confirmed 11/22/63 image of Ms Arnold to compare with PM-in-Darnell.

2. The lies of Messrs Shelley & Lovelady, as explored in this thread, require a compelling explanation. LHO=PM does not seem to offer that.

3. The blatantly false shadow down Mr Lovelady's side in Wiegman requires a compelling explanation. LHO=PM does not seem to offer that.



4. I believe the unaltered (or at least close to unaltered) Altgens photograph was shown once and only once to the American public-----------by Mr Walter Cronkite the evening of the assassination. If it is showing what I believe it may be showing, then we may be catching a glimpse of Mr Oswald not in the PM location but (what a coincidence!) in the selfsame area that has been artificially darkened in Wiegman



 

[Alan Ford]

If this is Mr Lovelady in the Darnell film-----------------



------------------then it is even possible that the man passing out Mr Danny Arce in the Couch film is none other than Mr Oswald--------------



-------------who is following Mr Shelley, who is already a ways west

Friends, this part of Mr Buell Wesley Frazier's testimony may be of very great importance:

Mr. BALL - On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What color was the jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.
Mr. BALL - Did it have a zipper on it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.
Mr. BALL - It isn't one of these two zipper jackets we have shown?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.