Progress... Have we made any ?.....

[Walt Cakebread]

Question:....   Mauser or Carcano?    At this late date we should have reached a firm unanimous  conclusion about what kind of rifle was found buried beneath the pallet of books in the NW corner of the sixth floor.  I believe that we will never have 100% in agreement.... but at this late date and the solid photographic evidence available ( Alyea film and many others) we should be near 100% in agreement about that rifle. 

If we can't agree on the answer to this simple question ....then there is no hope of ever finding answers to the more important questions.  Like:....  How did Lee Oswald know that Junior Jarman and Harold Norman walked by the first floor lunchroom at 12:26??

[Paul J Cummings]

As soon as the debate of Less Filling or Tastes Great is decided. Until this subject is decided I think it will have to wait.

[Dan O'meara]

If actual film footage of the rifle being removed from it's hiding place isn't enough to decide the matter then nothing will.

[Dan O'meara]

Oswald didn't specifically say that the two walked by the lunchroom.


The view from the lunchroom door to the rear door is blocked by a wall corner and there are columns that partially block the view from the lunchroom door to the open area of the first floor.

Another great graphic.
This clearly demonstrates that Oswald, sat in the first floor lunch room, could've seen Jarman and Norman as they made their way to west elevator. It is the only time Oswald could have seen them together during the lunch break and we know from the testimonies of the two men this happened @12:25 pm, minutes before the assassination (in fact, the motorcade was meant to be passing the TSBD building at this time).
Meanwhile, Arnold Rowland describes seeing the man with the rifle on the 6th floor at least ten minutes before this.

[Walt Cakebread]

Oswald didn't specifically say that the two walked by the lunchroom.


The view from the lunchroom door to the rear door is blocked by a wall corner and there are columns that partially block the view from the lunchroom door to the open area of the first floor.

Oswald didn't specifically say that the two walked by the lunchroom.

OMG!....  You post a picture that clearly shows a window in the east and north wall of the first floor lunchroom, and Jarman and Norman would have had to walk next to those windows to get to the door of the shipping room and the elevators.

And Lee most certainly DID tell Captain Fritz that he saw those two men walk by the 1st floor lunchroom while he was there in that room.

[Walt Cakebread]

Seems to me that east-side window doesn't offer much of a vantage point to the sidewalk. The north window maybe for a second as does the view from the open door of the lunchroom. Oswald would have to be already staring out the north window or the lunchroom door to observe the two men passing. That suggests he wasn't reading the newspaper or eating his "lunch". Maybe Lee was looking out at the sky and daydreaming of hijacking a plane to Cuba.

I believe Oswald in the SN window could have seen the two men hanging out together on the sidewalk. Then they appear together at the same time on the floor and side of the building that was below the SN window. Not a stretch to venture they entered the building together.



As Oswald didn't specify seeing them pass by the north window, it's just as likely he would have assumed they entered through the front door, where--depending on where he sat in the lunchroom--his odds of seeing them were much greater.

So where does Oswald say he saw the two men men pass through the first floor at 12:25/26?

As Oswald didn't specify seeing them pass by the north window, it's just as likely he would have assumed they entered through the front door, where--depending on where he sat in the lunchroom--his odds of seeing them were much greater.

Wow !   You're so desperate that you'll make an ass of yourself to avoid having to admit that Lee had a rock solid alibi. He saw Jarman & Norman walking  past the 1st floor lunch room as they traveled from the front of the TSBD to the 5th floor at 12:25. Jarman said that they departed from the front of the TSBD at about 12:25 and arrived on the fifth floor at about 12:28.

Jarman and Norman testified that they walked on the Houston street sidewalk on the east side of the TSBD. They walked from the front of the TSBD to the rear of the building and climbed the steps to the loading dock and then entered the shipping room by the back door.   Lee could have seen them in several places.......

[Zeon Mason]

There’s the case to be made that the MC rifle seen being picked up by Lt.Day per the Aleya film was laying flat as opposed to the photo made which had the rifle laying vertical (still apparently held wedged between two rows of boxes)

There’s the question  to be made that the MC rifle with offset scope ( requiring about 3” gap if wedged between 2 rows boxes only about 1”apart , left no signs of scoring on the sides of the boxes and all so , how easy or difficult it would it have been to get the sling pad into the gap 1st so that it’s under the rifle (vs on top of the rifle) and if it required pushing the rifle down or would gravity be enough, for the rifle to slide down?

[Walt Cakebread]

There’s the case to be made that the MC rifle seen being picked up by Lt.Day per the Aleya film was laying flat as opposed to the photo made which had the rifle laying vertical (still apparently held wedged between two rows of boxes)

There’s the question  to be made that the MC rifle with offset scope ( requiring about 3” gap if wedged between 2 rows boxes only about 1”apart , left no signs of scoring on the sides of the boxes and all so , how easy or difficult it would it have been to get the sling pad into the gap 1st so that it’s under the rifle (vs on top of the rifle) and if it required pushing the rifle down or would gravity be enough, for the rifle to slide down?

the MC rifle seen being picked up by Lt.Day per the Aleya film was laying flat as opposed to the photo made which had the rifle laying vertical (still apparently held wedged between two rows of boxes)

Hoorah for you Zeon!!     You're making a important observation.....and pointing out that the official DPD photo that purports to be of the carcano in situ is a ridiculous photo shop photo.