The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Zeon Mason]

 If the photo of the rifle between the boxes is legit, then even after a box was moved out of the way, the remaining boxes apparently were applying enough force on the rifle to keep it from rotating from vertical to flat on the ground.

So there seems to be  really only 2 possibilities to explain the flat laying rifle in Tom Aleya’s film sequence

1. At least one MORE box was moved just AFTER the photo was taken but just BEFORE Tom Aleya films Lt.Day lifting  rifle up, the result causing the rifle the to fall over flat.

2. The rifle was moved from some other location or was brought to the 6th floor to be filmed by Aleya as laying flat at the location of the boxes. The photograph of the rifle was then taken LATER to.establish a false timeline of the rifle discovered at 1:22pm.   

If no.1 , then there is a dishonest account given that there was no disturbance of the scene between the rifle photographed and the rifle then lifted by Lt.Day.

If no.2 then there is outright conspiracy.

Either way , there is reasonable doubt about the veracity of the account of the rifle being found, where and when it was found.

[Dan O'meara]

If the photo of the rifle between the boxes is legit, then even after a box was moved out of the way, the remaining boxes apparently were applying enough force on the rifle to keep it from rotating from vertical to flat on the ground.

So there seems to be  really only 2 possibilities to explain the flat laying rifle in Tom Aleya’s film sequence

1. At least one MORE box was moved just AFTER the photo was taken but just BEFORE Tom Aleya films Lt.Day lifting  rifle up, the result causing the rifle the to fall over flat.

2. The rifle was moved from some other location or was brought to the 6th floor to be filmed by Aleya as laying flat at the location of the boxes. The photograph of the rifle was then taken LATER to.establish a false timeline of the rifle discovered at 1:22pm.   

If no.1 , then there is a dishonest account given that there was no disturbance of the scene between the rifle photographed and the rifle then lifted by Lt.Day.

If no.2 then there is outright conspiracy.

Either way , there is reasonable doubt about the veracity of the account of the rifle being found, where and when it was found.

1. At least one MORE box was moved just AFTER the photo was taken but just BEFORE Tom Aleya films Lt.Day lifting  rifle up, the result causing the rifle the to fall over flat.

A while back I found every piece of Alyea footage I could about the discovery of the rifle and cobbled this together:

It opens with Fritz entering the area where the rifle was hidden and there is a shot of the rifle in the upright position. Below is a clearer pic:



This was taken before Day slid the rifle out of its original position and picked it up as shown in the Alyea footage, where it appears to be lying flat.
It is my opinion boxes where moved to allow Fritz and Day access into the rifle hiding area. Otherwise the rifle would've been easily seen.

[Walt Cakebread]

1. At least one MORE box was moved just AFTER the photo was taken but just BEFORE Tom Aleya films Lt.Day lifting  rifle up, the result causing the rifle the to fall over flat.

A while back I found every piece of Alyea footage I could about the discovery of the rifle and cobbled this together:

It opens with Fritz entering the area where the rifle was hidden and there is a shot of the rifle in the upright position. Below is a clearer pic:



This was taken before Day slid the rifle out of its original position and picked it up as shown in the Alyea footage, where it appears to be lying flat.
It is my opinion boxes where moved to allow Fritz and Day access into the rifle hiding area. Otherwise the rifle would've been easily seen.

This was taken before Day slid the rifle out of its original position and picked it up as shown in the Alyea footage, where it appears to be lying flat.

Dan, How can you verify that the photo was taken before Day "slid it out" and picked it up?

Please look at Weitzman exhibit "E"  and imagine Seymour Weitzman with his face down near the floor and shining his flashlight beneath the pallet.

Would it have been possible for Weitzman to have seen the rifle at that time if it had been standing between the boxes?   



 The camera angle is much steeper than Weitzman's face (which was on the floor) was when he looked beneath the pallet but Weitzman "E" provides a photo of the boxes and pallet where Weitzman saw the rifle LYING ON THE FLOOR.   

[Walt Cakebread]

1. At least one MORE box was moved just AFTER the photo was taken but just BEFORE Tom Aleya films Lt.Day lifting  rifle up, the result causing the rifle the to fall over flat.

A while back I found every piece of Alyea footage I could about the discovery of the rifle and cobbled this together:

It opens with Fritz entering the area where the rifle was hidden and there is a shot of the rifle in the upright position. Below is a clearer pic:



This was taken before Day slid the rifle out of its original position and picked it up as shown in the Alyea footage, where it appears to be lying flat.
It is my opinion boxes where moved to allow Fritz and Day access into the rifle hiding area. Otherwise the rifle would've been easily seen.

It is my opinion boxes where moved to allow Fritz and Day access into the rifle hiding area. Otherwise the rifle would've been easily seen.

Yes, you're right, Dan...  Boxes were moved....   Fritz could not have stood near the rifle because it was surrounded by boxes when Boone spotted it on the floor.   Boone had to move a box or two and then shine his flashlight down into the cavern of boxes.

The film which shows Fritz standing near the rifle which is sandwiched between boxes doesn't make sense    

For what reason would Firtz have stood above the rifle?   AND then he seems to walk off to the east and stand on the south east side of the ceiling support pillar.   That would have been impossible if boxes of books hadn't been moved.     

Bottom Line:......I don't believe the film was taken that afternoon..... 

[Zeon Mason]

According to Boones WC testimony, FRITZ was the one who lifted the rifle by the sling from its place.

There’s no mention specifically naming Lt.Day by Boone, the “ID” man cannot have been Lt.Day if Tom Aleya statement is correct that Lt.Day did not arrive to the 6th floor until 18 minutes after the rifle was photographed.

 Boone used the phrase “At this time” referring to when the photo was taken, that Fritz picked the rifle up “from its place”, so either Boone has very bad memory, OR a rifle was lifted up FIRST by Fritz almost immediately after the photo was taken, and then LATER , when Lt.Day  arrives, the rifle has been either moved to or returned to”it’s place” to be lifted AGAIN by Lt.Day while Aleya films it.

[Walt Cakebread]

If the photo of the rifle between the boxes is legit, then even after a box was moved out of the way, the remaining boxes apparently were applying enough force on the rifle to keep it from rotating from vertical to flat on the ground.

So there seems to be  really only 2 possibilities to explain the flat laying rifle in Tom Aleya’s film sequence

1. At least one MORE box was moved just AFTER the photo was taken but just BEFORE Tom Aleya films Lt.Day lifting  rifle up, the result causing the rifle the to fall over flat.

2. The rifle was moved from some other location or was brought to the 6th floor to be filmed by Aleya as laying flat at the location of the boxes. The photograph of the rifle was then taken LATER to.establish a false timeline of the rifle discovered at 1:22pm.   

If no.1 , then there is a dishonest account given that there was no disturbance of the scene between the rifle photographed and the rifle then lifted by Lt.Day.

If no.2 then there is outright conspiracy.

Either way , there is reasonable doubt about the veracity of the account of the rifle being found, where and when it was found.

there is reasonable doubt about the veracity of the account of the rifle being found, where and when it was found.

You're right, Zeon.... The carcano was found beneath the boxes of books on a pallet, in the NW corner of the sixth floor, and  it was not standing sandwiched between boxes.   The photos that show the rifle sandwiched between boxes were taken after 11/22/63 .   When the conspirators discovered that there would not have been enough time after the shooting for the patsy to have hid the rifle in the manner that it was hidden,(see Alyea film)  they were compelled to create fake photos of the rifle in a place where the patsy could hastily have dumped the rifle. 

2. The rifle was  was brought to the 6th floor to be filmed by Aleya   LT Day   The photograph of the rifle was then taken to create false evidence for the framing of Lee Oswald   

The film taken by Tom Alyea is authentic..... The rifle was lying on the floor just as it is seen in Tom Alyea's film and just as Seymour Weitzman saw it when he was down on the floor and shined his flashlight beneath the pallet.

[Dan O'meara]

This was taken before Day slid the rifle out of its original position and picked it up as shown in the Alyea footage, where it appears to be lying flat.

Dan, How can you verify that the photo was taken before Day "slid it out" and picked it up?

Please look at Weitzman exhibit "E"  and imagine Seymour Weitzman with his face down near the floor and shining his flashlight beneath the pallet.

Would it have been possible for Weitzman to have seen the rifle at that time if it had been standing between the boxes?   



 The camera angle is much steeper than Weitzman's face (which was on the floor) was when he looked beneath the pallet but Weitzman "E" provides a photo of the boxes and pallet where Weitzman saw the rifle LYING ON THE FLOOR.

The photo of Fritz stood in the boxes with the rifle in an upright position at his feet is a still from the Alyea film.
It is taken before Day picks the rifle up. At this moment the rifle is in the same position as in the photos taken by Studebaker, meaning Studebaker took his pictures before Day picked up the rife.
This is solid film evidence the rifle was in the upright position when it was initially found.
Why you think the rifle had to be photographed in the upright position in order to frame Oswald is baffling.

I'm very confused about the fuss being made about Jerry Organ's graphic. I've put a green arrow in the first pic to show where the rifle was found.

[Walt Cakebread]

The photo of Fritz stood in the boxes with the rifle in an upright position at his feet is a still from the Alyea film.
It is taken before Day picks the rifle up. At this moment the rifle is in the same position as in the photos taken by Studebaker, meaning Studebaker took his pictures before Day picked up the rife.
This is solid film evidence the rifle was in the upright position when it was initially found.
Why you think the rifle had to be photographed in the upright position in order to frame Oswald is baffling.

I'm very confused about the fuss being made about Jerry Organ's graphic. I've put a green arrow in the first pic to show where the rifle was found.

The green arrow points to the location where the rifle was standing upright and sandwiched between the boxes.....   The official DPD  in situ photo was taken with the rifle at that location.



In the looking west photo that site would be just west of the pillar with the number#5 painted on it

Seymour Weitzman was down on the floor and looking beneath the pallet when he spotted the rifle lying on the floor in the beam of his flashlight.   Weitzman could not have seen the rifle if it had been sandwiched between the boxes because there were boxes sitting on the floor in Weitzman's line of sight .....so either Weitzman was lying and the Alyea film is a fake or The in situ photo is a fake.