The Position of the Bolt on the MC

[Walt Cakebread]

Yes, Weitzman could have seen part of the rfife, not the whole rifle, while he was looking through the pallet.
Please quote where Weitzman said the rifle was beneath the pallet [do not ignore]
A question for you - if the rifle was beneath the pallet as you apparently believe, how did Boone see it?

Please quote where Weitzman said the rifle was beneath the pallet


I was on the floor looking under the flat at the same time he was looking on the top side and
we saw the gun, I would say, simultaneously and I said, “There it is” ----Seymour Weitzman

if the rifle was beneath the pallet as you apparently believe, how did Boone see it?

The rifle was not completely beneath the pallet the butt was sticking out from beneath that pallet .....Boone said that he could see only a small bit of the butt when he shined his light down to the bottom of that cavern.

Please review the photos that show the rifle sandwiched between the boxes and try to imagine how Weitzman could have seen the rifle that was behind the boxes.

[Zeon Mason]

So why did not Boone say that Lt Day was the one who lifted the rifle “from its place” ?

Boone said that FRITZ was the one who lifted the rifle from its place using the sling.

If Boone and or Weitzman were still present in proximity Aleya filming  Fritz and Day as they were examining the rifle then Weitzman and Boone should have been able to ascertain that their initial opinion of the rifle being a Mauser was Incorrect.

Therefore it seems odd that they both LATER less file an affidavit described the rifle  a

[Zeon Mason]

Both Weitzman and Boone if in the presence of Tom Aleya filming Lt.Day lifting the rifle and they saw  Fritz and Day examine the rifle and then for some reason hours LATER, Weitzman and Boone nonetheless  still apparently are of the opinion rifle was a Mauser.

Didn’t they at least hear Lt Day speak of the rifle being made in Italy or heard from Fritz when he ejected the shell and found the other shells that the shells were 6.5mm ?

Seems to be some time problem with Weitzman and Boone thats not quite in sync with the sequence in order of the finding of the rifle, followed by a photo and then Aleya’s film segment.

[Dan O'meara]

Please quote where Weitzman said the rifle was beneath the pallet


I was on the floor looking under the flat at the same time he was looking on the top side and
we saw the gun, I would say, simultaneously and I said, “There it is” ----Seymour Weitzman

Weitzman is saying he saw the rifle while he was on the ground, looking under the flat [pallet].
He is not saying he saw the rifle under the pallet. This is confirmed by Boone

if the rifle was beneath the pallet as you apparently believe, how did Boone see it?

The rifle was not completely beneath the pallet the butt was sticking out from beneath that pallet .....Boone said that he could see only a small bit of the butt when he shined his light down to the bottom of that cavern.

Please review the photos that show the rifle sandwiched between the boxes and try to imagine how Weitzman could have seen the rifle that was behind the boxes.

Once again, complete fantasy.
Boone states:

"...I caught a glimpse of the rifle, stuffed down between two rows of boxes with another box or so pulled over the top of it."

This is a specific point you have been caught out on. Boone describes, exactly, the position of the rifle when he discovers it - stuffed between two boxes, with another box pulled over the top of it. This is exactly what we see in the Alyea film and exactly what we see in the DPD photos.
The original position of the rifle in the Alyea film is stuffed between boxes with a box pulled over it.
The position of the rifle in the DPD pics is between two boxes with a box pulled over the top [both Alyea and Boone confirm the DPD pics were taken before the rifle was removed]

So, here we have you making up the situation where Weitzman says he found the rifle under the pallet [which he never did, he could see the end of the rifle in it's hiding place as he was looking through the pallet]
You have tried to strengthen this mistake by saying Boone saw the end of the rifle sticking out from under the pallet.
But Boone specifically describes the original position of the rifle [stuffed between boxes with a box pulled over the top], as it is filmed by Alyea and photographed by the DPD.
Your invention of Boone seeing part of the rifle sticking out from under the pallet has been proven to be incorrect. Do you accept that?

[Dan O'meara]

Both Weitzman and Boone if in the presence of Tom Aleya filming Lt.Day lifting the rifle and they saw  Fritz and Day examine the rifle and then for some reason hours LATER, Weitzman and Boone nonetheless  still apparently are of the opinion rifle was a Mauser.

Didn’t they at least hear Lt Day speak of the rifle being made in Italy or heard from Fritz when he ejected the shell and found the other shells that the shells were 6.5mm ?

Seems to be some time problem with Weitzman and Boone thats not quite in sync with the sequence in order of the finding of the rifle, followed by a photo and then Aleya’s film segment.

Both Weitzman and Boone if in the presence of Tom Aleya filming Lt.Day lifting the rifle and they saw  Fritz and Day examine the rifle and then for some reason hours LATER, Weitzman and Boone nonetheless  still apparently are of the opinion rifle was a Mauser.

Hi Zeon,
In his WC testimony regarding the position of the rifle when it was first found, Boone confirms Alyea was filming the whole thing:

"There was some newsman up there right behind Officer Whitman [Weitzman] and myself who took movie film of it too. I don't know his name."

Boone describes the original position of the rifle as "stuffed down between two rows of boxes with another box or so pulled over the top of it."
This is an exact description of the rifle as it originally appears  in the Alyea footage.
Alyea has this to say about his initial filming:

"Shortly after we arrived back on the 6th floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located the assassin's rifle almost completely hidden by some overhanging boxes near the stairwell. I filmed it as it was found. In my shot, the figure of Captain Fritz is standing within the enclosure next to the rifle."

Once again we hear Boone discovered the rifle and that it was hidden by overhanging boxes. Alyea filmed the rifle "as it was found", that is to say, in the exact position it was discovered in [stuffed between boxes with a box overhanging it]. The filming starts with "Fritz standing within the enclosure", exactly as we see in the film.

Both Weitzman and Boone are adamant that once the rifle was discovered the area was sealed off until the crime lab came over.

All this points to one very simple fact - Tom Alyea filmed the rifle in it's original position and filmed it being removed.
In the Alyea footage, the rifle removed by Day is NOT a Mauser.
Yet Boone and Weitzman went on to describe it as such.

How do we explain this?
That Boone and Weitzman were mistaken? That, as Boone said, he overheard someone, possibly Fritz, describe it as a Mauser and he simply accepted that.

Or do we get into the realms of "the Alyea film was faked"?

Which seems more likely?

[Walt Cakebread]

Weitzman is saying he saw the rifle while he was on the ground, looking under the flat [pallet].
He is not saying he saw the rifle under the pallet. This is confirmed by Boone

Once again, complete fantasy.
Boone states:

"...I caught a glimpse of the rifle, stuffed down between two rows of boxes with another box or so pulled over the top of it."

This is a specific point you have been caught out on. Boone describes, exactly, the position of the rifle when he discovers it - stuffed between two boxes, with another box pulled over the top of it. This is exactly what we see in the Alyea film and exactly what we see in the DPD photos.
The original position of the rifle in the Alyea film is stuffed between boxes with a box pulled over it.
The position of the rifle in the DPD pics is between two boxes with a box pulled over the top [both Alyea and Boone confirm the DPD pics were taken before the rifle was removed]

So, here we have you making up the situation where Weitzman says he found the rifle under the pallet [which he never did, he could see the end of the rifle in it's hiding place as he was looking through the pallet]
You have tried to strengthen this mistake by saying Boone saw the end of the rifle sticking out from under the pallet.
But Boone specifically describes the original position of the rifle [stuffed between boxes with a box pulled over the top], as it is filmed by Alyea and photographed by the DPD.
Your invention of Boone seeing part of the rifle sticking out from under the pallet has been proven to be incorrect. Do you accept that?

Ok Dan... Continue chasing the wild goose.... Have fun.

[Zeon Mason]

since Imo Oswald was NOT the 6th floor TSBD shooter (for a myriad of reasons) , then some other shooter either fired the MC rifle or he used some other rifle.

If the TSBD shooter Used another rifle, and also planted an MC rifle to frame Oswald ,  then he likely would  have pre planted  the MC rifle and made sure it was WELL hidden so as not to be inadvertently  discovered by some employee moving a few boxes. Therefore  Walt’s proposition that the original location of the MC may have been INSIDE a pallet stacked full of boxes is plausible. This one possible solution  to explain how Weitzman could see a rifle while he was  looking westward thru the open part of a pallet stacked full of boxes.

The only way to prove  an alternative LOS solution for  Weitzman would require analysis  of the diagonal line from the southeast corner of the pallet to the north west corner of the pallet and if that diagonal lines up with the location of the rifle. There also would have to be a missing box at ground level as in in the photo of the rifle For such a diagonal LOS to be plausible.

[Walt Cakebread]

since Imo Oswald was NOT the 6th floor TSBD shooter (for a myriad of reasons) , then some other shooter either fired the MC rifle or he used some other rifle.

If the TSBD shooter Used another rifle, and also planted an MC rifle to frame Oswald ,  then he likely would  have pre planted  the MC rifle and made sure it was WELL hidden so as not to be inadvertently  discovered by some employee moving a few boxes. Therefore  Walt’s proposition that the original location of the MC may have been INSIDE a pallet stacked full of boxes is plausible. This one possible solution  to explain how Weitzman could see a rifle while he was  looking westward thru the open part of a pallet stacked full of boxes.

The only way to prove  an alternative LOS solution for  Weitzman would require analysis  of the diagonal line from the southeast corner of the pallet to the north west corner of the pallet and if that diagonal lines up with the location of the rifle. There also would have to be a missing box at ground level as in in the photo of the rifle For such a diagonal LOS to be plausible.

Zeon, I doubt that the entire carcano was beneath the pallet .....And since Boone said that he saw only a small portion of the butt of the rifle when he shined his flashlight down into the dark cavern that was created by stacking boxes of books in a manner to form a cavern. I'd guess that at least 75% of the rifle was beneath the pallet ..... And of course I have no way of knowing whether the rifle was under the open end of the N/S slats of the pallet, but I'd speculate that it was pointed east beneath those N/S slats.  ( Seymour Weitzman was looing right down the barrel of the rifle.)  If the rifle had been sandwiched between boxes as it is shown in the DPD photo ( CE 514)  There would have been boxes between his eyes ( and flashlight)  and the rifle so he could not have seen the rifle.

And Weitzman specifically said that he looked beneath the flat and saw the rifle lying on the floor.