A Rock Solid Alibi.....

[Charles Collins]

If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.

So, why don't you tell us how exactly he could have done that?

How did he manage to cover a distance nearly double in lenght as the distance Adams and Styles had to cover and go down two flights of stairs and still be there before Adams and Styles got to the stairs on the 4th floor?

Or, alternatively, how did he manage to get by Dorothy Garner, who was near enough to the stairs to hear the girls go down and who saw nobody else except Truly and Baker coming up?

Shall I prepare for a long wait?

You’ve already said it yourself. And I pointed out that the same reasoning applies to these stairs.

[Martin Weidmann]

You’ve already said it yourself. And I pointed out that the same reasoning applies to these stairs.

Oh no, it doesn't work that way. There is a lot of difference between somebody in a crowd, with a lot going on, not seeing a particular individual and one person like Garner who was standing near the stairway of an empty warehouse floor with nothing else going on somehow missing somebody coming down noisy stairs and passing directly by her.

The one living in a fantasy world is you. If this is all you've got, then you've got nothing!

[Alan Ford]

You jump to the most ridiculous conclusions. What appears to have eluded you (even though I gave an elementary school analogy) is that this is sixth-hand information by the time Gordon Shanklin gets it. Seventh-hand information by the time it gets to J. Edgar Hoover. Hence the comparison to the elementary school lesson. You do not include the date and time of the memo. You do not include any information at all that would tend to corroborate what the sixth-hand account says. As far as I know, none of the seven individuals involved in transmitting this account ever confirmed it. And best of all it was supposedly started by an “unidentified individual”. You claim that this is “conspiracy-proving”. It isn’t, its just another bit of early-on misinformation that ended up on a memo to JEH.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 1
WITNESS TO SAWYER: I saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 2
SAWYER TO HENSLEE: The witness says he saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 3
SAWYER TO BATCHELOR: The witness said he saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 4
BATCHELOR TO DRAIN: The witness said he saw a man running from the window shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, stocky build, 5'11", 150 pounds, carrying what looked to be a Mauser.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 5
DRAIN TO MALLEY: The witness said he saw a man standing at the window during the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 25, stocky build, 5'11", 150 pounds, carrying what looked to be a Mauser.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 6
MALLEY TO SHANKLIN: The witness said he saw a man standing at the window during the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 25, stocky build, 5'11", 150 pounds, carrying what looked to be a Carcano.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHISPER 7
SHANKLIN TO HOOVER: The witness said he saw a man running from the building shortly after the shooting. He was a white male, approximately 30, slender build, 5'10", 165 pounds, carrying what looked to be a 30:30 or some type of Winchester rifle.

--
Something like this, Mr Collins?

[Alan Ford]

Sorry, I must have missed this post until now. That’s it?   

You obviously haven’t read the thread that I started a while back regarding Geneva Hine. It was started for a completely different reason. You can read it if you are interested.

So, specifically how do you think that this idea you have regarding Geneva Hine’s account put a damper on Mrs. Reid’s account? What are you trying to say?

Well? Which desk do you suspect Ms Reid hid under?

[Alan Ford]

What "crowd" was there between the 6th floor and exit that your "other" shooter could have mingled with to escape the building?  Unreal.  Oswald was LESS likely to be noticed than a stranger since he worked in the building and had a legitimate reason to be there.  The simple point here is that we know with absolute certainty that someone on the 6th floor could get off that floor without anyone noticing them because that is what actually happened.

Except it's not:



 

[Alan Ford]

This reasoning was used for why someone might not have been noticed on the front entrance steps:

Yet, it is apparently being ignored when it comes to the northwest inside stairs.

There was no one “monitoring the stairs”.

Ms Dorothy Garner could see them and noticed Mr Truly and Officer Baker come up them---------AFTER Ms Adams & Ms Styles went running down them. Oh dear!

There wasn’t a security checkpoint with retina scanning (like they use these days at U.S. customs for people entering the country). LHO was sneaky. He was reportedly sneaking out of his aunt’s house while everyone was asleep when he wasn’t much older than a toddler. If you think LHO couldn’t have gotten down those stairs in that timeframe without being detected, you are just kidding yourself.

Lol

[Charles Collins]

Oh no, it doesn't work that way. There is a lot of difference between somebody in a crowd, with a lot going on, not seeing a particular individual and one person like Garner who was standing near the stairway of an empty warehouse floor with nothing else going on somehow missing somebody coming down noisy stairs and passing directly by her.

The one living in a fantasy world is you. If this is all you've got, then you've got nothing!

Not even one of the employees of the TSBD saw LHO around the time of the assassination. Many of them were at or near the area in question near the top of the steps of the entrance to the building at the time of the assassination. None of them saw LHO at that time, none of them.

You have one person within earshot of the the staircase who may or may not have been paying attention to the staircase the entire time in question.
 
So, how is it that you think only one person is less likely to miss noticing LHO at the northwest staircase, than all the people combined who were standing at the entrance of the building. Get real….

[Martin Weidmann]

Hearsay and without cross-examination.

    "Mr. Bellin was questioning Miss Adams about whether or not she
     saw anyone as she was running down the stairs. Miss Garner,
     Miss Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams
     went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman
     come up."

Also Garner doesn't say here she saw Adams & Styles go down. She could have heard Truly and Baker coming up, and mistakenly thought it was the two women on the stairs. Garner might have missed Adams and Styles going down altogether. Styles said it more like minutes, then seconds before they left the window and that they first went to and waited on the passenger elevator.

It's also possible that Garner saw the two girls enter the stairway and missed seeing Baker and Truly passing through the fourth floor a minute or so earlier.  Baker and Truly were back on the fourth, after having gone to the roof. Garner could have seen them then.

None of this was asked of Garner and we don't the context in which she was speaking. We do know what Baker and Truly did (and recreated it in time trials right at the Depository) and that Adams testified she saw Lovelady when she reached the first floor, which would be about 12:34.

Hearsay and without cross-examination.

This is, by far, the most hypocritical argument for any LN to make. The entire case against Oswald is based on hearsay and no cross-examination of witnesses, yet no LN has any kind of problem with that.

Also Garner doesn't say here she saw Adams & Styles go down. She could have heard Truly and Baker coming up, and mistakenly thought it was the two women on the stairs. Garner might have missed Adams and Styles going down altogether.

LOL... Barry Ernest interviewed Dorothy Garner for his book and she told him the girls left the window directly after the last shot. They ran to the back of the building and Garner followed them. Although she did not see them go down, she did hear them on the stairs.

Styles said it more like minutes, then seconds before they left the window and that they first went to and waited on the passenger elevator.

Styles gave several different versions over time, but when pressed she admitted she could be wrong and Adams may well be right. Also, facts don't lie and in this case Styles was photographed in front of the front entrance of the TSBD before it was locked down. She could not have been there if she and Adams did not leave the 4th floor directly after the shots. Besides, Garner saw Truly and a police man come up and that happened within less than a minute after the shots. So, where did the two girls go to if they didn't go down the stairs prior to Truly and Baker coming up?

None of this was asked of Garner and we don't the context in which she was speaking.

Actually, it was asked of her, by Barry Ernest

We do know what Baker and Truly did (and recreated it in time trials right at the Depository)

Yes, we do know what Baker and Truly did (because unlike Adams they were part of the time trails), which is how we know that the two men must have arrived at the 4th floor within a minute of the shots. And we know from Garner that the girls had already gone down by then.

and that Adams testified she saw Lovelady when she reached the first floor, which would be about 12:34.

According to Barry Ernest, Adams wasn't aware this was in her testimony and she denied saying it. Lovelady and Shelley both denied seeing Adams there (they were not even in the building at that time) and it's a physical impossibility for this to have happened given the fact that Styles was photographed at the front of the building a minute or two later. There is no way these women could have gone down the stairs, leave the building at the loading dock at the back, cross the railway yard and the length of the TSBD building in less than two minutes.

The alleged Lovelady sighting never took place. It was the WC's way of discrediting Adams who they needed to get out of the way to give Oswald a window of opportunity to go down the stairs. The whole thing is a bogus as can be and anybody with a functional brain will see it for what it is.

The bottom line is that you can not question what Dorothy Garner said simply because the WC's investigation was pathetic and they ignored her completely. If the WC had done a better job, than just place a phone call to Garner, we might have found out more of the truth about the stairs matter. But then, that's exactly what the WC wasn't interested in. Why else would they leave Adams out of the recreation?