Poll claims Oswald seen as ......

[Richard Smith]

There is no way that Oswald could have taken the elevator in that scenario to reach the 2nd floor lunchroom before Baker.  Yet Martin has so far denied that his conclusion that Oswald did not use the stairs precludes him being the assassin.  How he could get from the 6th floor to 2nd floor in this scenario is left unexplained.

Another day and again another strawman.

And not a trace of evidence for Richard's claim that Oswald was on the 6th floor and came down the stairs to the 2nd floor unnoticed. I don't think Oswald, or anybody else, could have come down the stairs unnoticed, directly after the shots, but, according to Richard, Oswald somehow managed to do exactly that. Too bad that Richard just can't explain how he managed to do that.....

So now you are back to concluding that Oswald couldn't have come down the stairs contradicting your very last post.   Unreal.

[Martin Weidmann]

So now you think it is possible for Oswald to have used the stairs unnoticed to reach the lunchroom?  After going on and on to claim this was impossible based on the witness testimony ("he didn't come down the stairs").  Wow.  Take it up with the guy who wrote this under your name:

"If Oswald had come down the stairs within 75 seconds after the shots, he would have been seen by Dorothy Garner, who was standing next to the stairs on the 4th floor.
She heard Adams and Styles going down on the stairs and saw Baker and Truly come up. Somewhere inbetween these two events Oswald would have be passing the 4th floor. The reason Garner did not see him is simple; he didn't come down the stairs."

Mr. Misrepresentation strikes again.

So now you think it is possible for Oswald to have used the stairs unnoticed to reach the lunchroom?

Where exactly did I say that?

You can twist and turn all you want, but you are the one who claimed that Oswald came down the stairs unnoticed. I don't think that's possible, but if you can explain how he managed to do that, I might change my mind.

Ever since I asked you for this explanation for the first time, you've been doing a song and dance routine and tried every form of deflection. Why is that?

[Martin Weidmann]

So now you are back to concluding that Oswald couldn't have come down the stairs contradicting your very last post.   Unreal.

I've never changed my position once. You just keep on misrepresenting it. That's all.

[Martin Weidmann]

This is not rocket science.  There were only two ways to descend from the 6th floor to the 2nd floor - stairs or elevator.  You have cited witness testimony to conclude that Oswald could not have descended the stairs unnoticed.  The facts and circumstances also eliminate the elevators.  Thus, there is no conceivable way that Oswald could have reached the 2nd floor if he had been the assassin under your analysis.  I'm not even debating whether you are correct or not.  Just asking you to confirm that under your own analysis the only possible conclusion that can be drawn is that Oswald could not have been the assassin.  Why is that so hard?  You refuse to accept your own conclusion.  You are struggling against yourself not me.

there is no conceivable way that Oswald could have reached the 2nd floor if he had been the assassin under your analysis.

Simple question; do you agree with this analysis?

I'm not even debating whether you are correct or not

Of course you are not and it's pretty obvious why. You haven't got the guts to go there.

Just asking you to confirm that under your own analysis the only possible conclusion that can be drawn is that Oswald could not have been the assassin.

I am not in the habit of repeating myself time after time just because some clown keeps asking the same question over and over again. The implications of my observation are clear. If Oswald could not go down the stairs unnoticed, within roughly 75 seconds after the shots, and nobody did in fact see him, than it is unlikely he was even on the 6th floor. So, in order to establish if he was indeed on the 6th floor it needs to be explained how he could have managed to come down the stairs. Despite claiming that there was evidence for it, you have still not been able to provide a plausible explanation which, by implication, also means that you can't prove that he was on the 6th floor either.

You can't have the one without the other, at least not where Oswald is concerned. I've asked you time after time for a plausible explanation and you have not presented one. That says enough.

[Jerry Organ]

I think at this point,  I should heed my own advice, and stop arguing with an ignoramus.......But ....

Jarman, I think, said something like "It was 12:25 or 12:28". Is that your source?

Question;.... Does 12:27 fall between 12:25 - 12:28 ?  I can't give you the precise time that Lee Oswald saw Jarman and Norman walk by the 1st floor lunchroom because they never gave an exact time.   But we don't need a precise time...  Lee said that he saw them walk by and Jarman said that they arrived on the 5th floor at 12:28..... It doesn't require a degree in advanced mathematics to understand that Lee couldn't have been on the 6th floor and firing that carcano at 12:30.

OK. So I can likewise subtract a minute from the 12:25 part of Jarman's statement and have them walk through the back door at 12:24. That seems to work better with some of Jarman's and Norman's estimates of 12:20 to 12:25 for when they decided to go up to the fifth floor.

The people recording Oswald's claims said he was in the domino room when either two man walked through, or the two men sat down and had lunch there. Jarman and Norman, and I believe Oswald would have known this, would have to go through the domino room to get to where they routinely stored their lunches. Neither men saw Oswald while eating their lunch, so likely Oswald had no idea that the two men had already eaten.

Perhaps you should review the story..... There were only three men at the interrogation at 3:15 ...They were Fritz, Hosty, and Bookhout....   Thomas Kelly's first interrogation of Lee Oswald occurred on Sunday morning just prior to the lynching of Lee Oswald.  So your citing of Kelly is irrelevant   Since Lee told Fritz, Hosty, and 
Bookhout during that initial interrogation that he was in the first floor lunchroom when Junior and Shorty walked by.  I can't understand why you want to cite a person who wasn't even there. Citing Thomas Kelly merely reveals your desperation.

Kelly says he was at the 10:30 interview on Saturday, Nov. 23rd. Those he states present were Bookhout, Fritz, US Marshall Robert Nash, Secret Service agents Grant and Sorrels, and Boyd and Hall.

    "He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him.
     He described one of them as ‘Junior’, a colored boy, and the other was
     a little short negro boy. He said his lunch consisted of cheese, bread,
     fruit, and apples, and was the only package he had with him when he
     went to work."

Bookhout, at the same interview, wrote:

    "OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in
     the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but
     recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room
     during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was
     called ‘Junior’ and the other was a short individual whose name he
     could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize."

The part of Capt. Fritz's report dealing with the Saturday morning interview stated Oswald:

    "said he ate lunch with some of the colored boys who worked with him.
     One of them was called ‘Junior’ and the other one was a little short
     man whose name he did not know. He said he had a cheese sandwich
     and some fruit and that was the only package he had brough with him
     to work and denied he had brought the long package described by
     Mr. Frazier and his sister."

[Walt Cakebread]

OK. So I can likewise subtract a minute from the 12:25 part of Jarman's statement and have them walk through the back door at 12:24. That seems to work better with some of Jarman's and Norman's estimates of 12:20 to 12:25 for when they decided to go up to the fifth floor.

Kelly says he was at the 10:30 interview on Saturday, Nov. 23rd. Those he states present were Bookhout, Fritz, US Marshall Robert Nash, Secret Service agents Grant and Sorrels, and Boyd and Hall.

    "He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him.
     He described one of them as ‘Junior’, a colored boy, and the other was
     a little short negro boy. He said his lunch consisted of cheese, bread,
     fruit, and apples, and was the only package he had with him when he
     went to work."

Bookhout, at the same interview, wrote:

    "OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in
     the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but
     recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room
     during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was
     called ‘Junior’ and the other was a short individual whose name he
     could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize."

The part of Capt. Fritz's report dealing with the Saturday morning interview stated Oswald:

    "said he ate lunch with some of the colored boys who worked with him.
     One of them was called ‘Junior’ and the other one was a little short
     man whose name he did not know. He said he had a cheese sandwich
     and some fruit and that was the only package he had brough with him
     to work and denied he had brought the long package described by
     Mr. Frazier and his sister."

So I can likewise subtract a minute from the 12:25 part of Jarman's statement and have them walk through the back door at 12:24.

Do you believe that 12:24 falls between 12:25 and 12:28? If you actually believe that....then you need to seek mental help.

I was wrong about Kelley's first attendance at an interrogation session.... He first attended an interrogation session on Saturday .   He attended the session in which James Bookhout reported that Lee told them he had eaten lunch ALONE   (page 622 WR) but he'd seen the two colored employees walk by the lunchroom while he was eating his lunch.

Bookhout, at the same interview, wrote:

    "OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in
     the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but
     recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room
     during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was
     called ‘Junior’ and the other was a short individual whose name he
     could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize."

 

[Jerry Freeman]

   This was a simple point that was being made.

My point was simpler.
 

If Oswald did not commit this crime, then there must have been a conspiracy to frame him to explain the evidence against him.

So you say and I agree. However, just stating this is NOT a theory it merely makes one skeptical of the official theory.

 In addition, Martin refuses to even admit that he is a CTer.

There you go again. Why must somebody just have to admit something?

He is apparently ashamed to be linked to folks such as yourself despite agreeing with you. 

Now what are YOU babbling about?

Apparently ashamed?

You are incorrigible.
Without stating "his rifle"...with what evidence do you place Oswald as the 6th floor shooter?

[Jerry Organ]

So I can likewise subtract a minute from the 12:25 part of Jarman's statement and have them walk through the back door at 12:24.

Do you believe that 12:24 falls between 12:25 and 12:28? If you actually believe that....then you need to seek mental help.

12:24 falls between the 12:20-to-12:25 that were given as estimates. The men entering at 12:25 would give Lunchroom Os nearly five minutes to get upstairs and in place.

I was wrong about Kelley's first attendance at an interrogation session.... He first attended an interrogation session on Saturday .   He attended the session in which James Bookhout reported that Lee told them he had eaten lunch ALONE   (page 622 WR) but he'd seen the two colored employees walk by the lunchroom while he was eating his lunch.

Bookhout, at the same interview, wrote:

    "OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in
     the lunch room at the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but
     recalled possibly two Negro employees walking through the room
     during this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was
     called ‘Junior’ and the other was a short individual whose name he
     could not recall but whom he would be able to recognize."

That's nice, but Bookhout says Oswald wasn't alone for long. Both Kelley and Fritz say Oswald claimed to have eaten lunch with the two men. Oswald heard Jarman and Norman arrive beneath the open window on the sixth floor. He guessed wrongly that the two men had just finished eating lunch together. He tried to make it seem like he was also there.