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Author Topic: Oswald's Motive  (Read 26018 times)

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2022, 12:09:58 AM »
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Strawmen argument? We had numerous posts here recently about, among other things, a documentary claiming that the Paines planted Oswald, i.e., got him the job, in the TSBD in order to frame him for the assassination. See Garrison's work. Salandria's work. DiEugenio's work. They all make the same claim.

I think you need to visit the conspiracy sites a bit more. They are filled with claims that the Paines setup Oswald.

Try this: https://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20Assassination%20and%20Mrs.%20Paine

And this:  https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28210-ruth-paine-on-the-assassination-mrs-paine-film-well-done-but-powerfully-awful/#comment-473654

If you want to dismiss all of these people as crackpots and oddballs, I'll agree. But if you want to say these claims are on the fringe, I won't.

I watched the recent documentary on Ruth Paine by Max Good and I thought the film was fair and left it up to the viewers draw their own conclusions.

Some of the questions she gave the interviewer lead to more questions about her and based on her reactions I felt that she was aware or had an understanding of why some are suspicious of her.

She confirmed her family’s relationship with Allen Dulles but was evasive about her father and sister’s careers in US intelligence. Her father worked for USAID and her sister, who she visited in the summer of 63 before traveling to New Orleans, worked for the CIA.

The CIA isn’t supposed to operate domestically so I understand why they continue to be cagey about the extent of their spying on US citizens on US soil. But it seems plausible that DeMorenschildt and the Paines might have been informants for them.

I think Oswald, who had returned from Russia and had a Russian wife, was a legit target for US intelligence surveillance so I don’t think the fact that some people close to him may have been informants justifies leaping to the conclusion that they helped to frame him. But if the informant thing is confirmed to be true then it becomes harder to rule out potential manipulation of Oswald.

Most researchers that I follow avoid suggesting that the Paines framed Oswald and I think that’s the correct position unless some evidence surfaces to prove that they had a hand in manipulating and framing him.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 12:38:14 AM by Jon Banks »

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2022, 12:09:58 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2022, 05:34:37 AM »
Oswald may or may not have liked JFK. We’ll never know. What we do have a fairly good idea about is Oswald’s life and belief system. I don’t believe Oswald was shooting at JFK personally. I believe he was shooting at the POTUS and all that position represented to the world.

I believe he was shooting at the POTUS and all that position represented to the world.
_ Agreed. Myself, I have attempted to represent that position graphically. (See Dead Oswald Tour #337/338)
   (The tuxedo represents a kind of 'poke-in-the-eye' from Oswald).
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 03:26:38 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2022, 05:39:55 AM »
Oswald had no motive . He was set up as a Patsy . Ruby had a motive and he went through with it . Malcolm Wallace wanted more money and it cost him his life . Loy Factor did not shoot at anyone that day and neither did LHO . Wake up people . We were all taken for a ride and that ride continues to this day .

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2022, 05:39:55 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #83 on: December 03, 2022, 12:02:59 PM »
Here’s a paragraph from Robert Oswald’s book “Lee” that I find significant:


I still remember how completely relaxed he seemed, as though all the frenzied activity there in the Dallas jail and all over the United States had nothing whatever to do with him. His voice was calm, and he talked matter-of-factly, without any sign of tension or strain, as though we were discussing a moderately interesting incident at his office or my office.


Marina also took note of his calm demeanor, she even stated something to the effect that this was one item that indicated to her that LHO was guilty. She thought that if he was innocent, that he would be raising holy hell.

And several of the law enforcement officers, investigators, etc have also expressed the opinion that LHO seemed too calm for the circumstances.


People have tried to draw various conclusions from his calm demeanor. Of course these can only be opinions. Personally, I think that it is significant that the calm demeanor stood out as an unexpected aspect, and made a lasting impression on both Robert and Marina, two people who knew LHO well. I think that LHO knew that it was over (he reportedly said so in the Texas Theater). However, I believe that he also knew that he had made his mark on the world, and that the end result would therefore mean that he would “go down in history.”  I believe that, to LHO’s troubled mind, the end result somehow justified the means. That’s how freaking sick I believe he was.

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2022, 01:06:55 PM »
This is just sad. The OP seems oblivious to all the research done on Oswald since the 1990s and to all the new information that has come to light about Oswald's extensive ties to right-wing figures and anti-Castro elements, not to mention the fact that virtually everyone who said they heard Oswald talk about JFK said that he admired and liked JFK.

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2022, 01:06:55 PM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #85 on: December 03, 2022, 01:26:04 PM »
This is just sad. The OP seems oblivious to all the research done on Oswald since the 1990s and to all the new information that has come to light about Oswald's extensive ties to right-wing figures and anti-Castro elements, not to mention the fact that virtually everyone who said they heard Oswald talk about JFK said that he admired and liked JFK.

I don’t think they’re oblivious to those things.

They just cherry-pick the facts in order to justify their conclusions.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2022, 02:52:52 PM »
Robert Oswald, "Lee" pages 224-227:



While I am ready at any time to be convinced that the Warren commission was wrong, I have not yet read or heard or seen any evidence that has shaken my conviction that Lee and Lee alone fired the shots that woulded Governor Connally and killed the President of the United States.

I base my own judgment largely on the physical evidence and on the words spoken to me by Lieutenant Cunningham and Henry Wade in the first twenty-four hours after the assassination. Cunningham's account of Lee's strange behavior at the Texas Theatre and reports by both Cunningham and Wade of what various eyewitnesses had said made me impatient to hear some explanation from Lee. When I saw him on Saturday, he offered no explanation.

Despite the blunders by the Dallas police and the errors and omissions of the Warren Commission, I am convinced:

1.  Lee ordered the 6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano from Klein's Sporting Goods Company in Chicago in March, 1963. Handwriting experts told the Commission that the mail-order form and the money order were in Lee's handwriting.
2.  Lee received the rifle. It was mailed to Post Office Box 2915, Dallas, and this was the last address Lee gave to me for his mail. While he denied that he owned any rifle, Marina's testimony and the photographs found in the Paine garage on the afternoon of November 23 prove that he did own one.
3.  The rifle was taken from the Paine garage sometime before November 22, 1963. I believe it was taken by Lee when he made his unusual Thursday evening visit to the Paine home on November 21, 1963.
4.  Lee did have a package with him when he went to the Texas School Book Depository on Friday morning, November 22, 1963. If the package actually contained curtain rods - as he told Buell Wesley Frazier, the neighbor who drove him to work - then those curtain rods have never turned up after the most intensive search of the Depository building.
5.  Lee did have the general opportunity to shoot at the President without being seen by anyone else at the Depository. charles Givens, who was working with a floor-laying crew on the sixth floor, saw Lee on the fifth floor around 11:50 or 11:55 a.m. on November 22, 1963. Lee was then carrying a clipboard which was found ten days after the assassination hidden on the sixth floor. No one has ever come forward with any testimony that proves that Lee was not in that general part of the Depository building at the time of the assassination.
6.  The 6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano, serial number C2766, was found on the sixth floor of the Depository building about 1:22 p.m. on November 22, 1963. The rifle still had one live round in it. About ten minutes earlier three empty cartridge cases had been discovered near the window in the southeast corner of the sixth floor. Unfortunately, an officer - Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman - said the weapon was a 7.65 Mauser bolt-action rifle. He made that statement before he had taken the trouble to examine the weapon closely, and he was wrong - as he later admitted. Actually, there are certain resemblances between the 7.65 Mauser bolt-action rifle and the 6.5 Mannlicher-Carcano, and under ordinary circumstances the officer's casual statement would have been treated as an unfortunate but unimportant error - as though he had said a suspect was "about 5 feet 9 inches" when he was actually 5 feet 8 inches. The error Weitzman made does not alter the fact: Less than an hour after the assassination, the Dallas police had found in the Texas School Book Depository Building the rifle mailed to Lee from Chicago about seven months earlier.
7.  Lee did leave the Depository building almost immediately after the assassination.
8.  Lee did return to the rooming house at 1026 North Beckley about one o'clock on November 22, 1963, and left three or four minutes later.
9.  Police Officer J. D. Tippit was shot near the intersection of Tenth and Patton, a few blocks from the rooming house, at approximately 1:16 p.m.
10.  When Lee was arrested at the Texas Theatre, about eight blocks from the spot where Tippit was shot, between 1:45 and 1:50 p.m., he had a Smith & Wesson .38 Special caliber revolver, serial number V510210. Four cartridge cases found a few minutes later in the shrubbery at the corner of Tenth and Patton by three eyewitnesses had ben fired from that particular pistol, according to expert testimony.
11.  Lee had ordered that revolver in January or February, 1963, from Seaport Traders, Inc., of Los Angeles. He had used the alias "A. J. Hidell," and had used the same address he gave me and later used in ordering the rifle - Box 2915, Dallas, Texas.
12.  Five different people picked out Lee as the man they had seen shoot J. D. Tippit or run from the scene of the shooting, emptying his revolver as he ran.

I do not believe any one of these twelve statements can be disproved, and I find only one explanation for this sequence of events:  Lee shot President Kennedy, Governor Connally, and Officer J. D. Tippit. I kept my mind open for other explanations as long as I could, and I am ready at any time to be proven wrong. But those who chip away at details in the twenty-six volumes issued by the Warren Commission seem to me to accomplish nothing unless they can offer some alternate explanation for this series of actions by Lee between January, 1963, and November 22, 1963.



Robert's list is not a complete list, but is what he believed was enough to convince him. He is, like most lone gunman believers that I have encountered, "ready at any time to be proven wrong." It has been over 59-years and still nothing...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 02:55:13 PM by Charles Collins »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2022, 03:11:38 PM »
I don’t think they’re oblivious to those things.

They just cherry-pick the facts in order to justify their conclusions.

Oswald did the cherry-picking
We just watched

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2022, 03:11:38 PM »