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Author Topic: Oswald's Motive  (Read 24046 times)

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2022, 04:11:38 PM »
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His lack of a clear political motive doesn’t exonerate him of course.

But I’m not convinced by the “he did it because he was a loser” theory.

Oswald's motive can only be known with certainty to himself.  Assassinating the president as he did is not the action of a rational person.  As a result, there is no single rational explanation for his act.  No doubt many factors came into play including politics and Oswald's own psychological impulses.  The evidence confirms he was the assassin, however, even if his motive can't be proven with certainty. 

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2022, 04:11:38 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2022, 04:12:35 PM »
It's debatable whether Oswald's attraction to Marxism was fueled by a belief in its ideology or whether Oswald turned to Marxism because it stood in contrast to American norms.  Robert Oswald said exactly that:  "If everybody had been Marxist, he would have been an American, vice versa."
Right, Marxism was an explanation for his plight, for the ugliness he saw around him. "Why is the world so ugly to me?" Answer: Because it's a corrupt world, it's a world that Marxism explained to him. That's what happened, it seems to me, to many Americans who became communists during the Great Depression. At that time liberal democracy was a failure, fascism was on the rise, and communism seemed the answer to those challenges. It was why, for example, Whittaker Chambers became one.

But even if it was just a rejection of America it was still something he believed in. He wasn't, I don't think, a nihilist.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2022, 04:24:18 PM »
Right, Marxism was an explanation for his plight, for the ugliness he saw around him. "Why is the world so ugly to me?" Answer: Because it's a corrupt world, it's a world that Marxism explained to him. That's what happened, it seems to me, to many Americans who became communists during the Great Depression. At that time liberal democracy was a failure, fascism was on the rise, and communism seemed the answer to those challenges. It was why, for example, Whittaker Chambers became one.

But even if it was just a rejection of America it was still something he believed in. He wasn't, I don't think, a nihilist.

I think Oswald desired the attention (even negative attention) that he received by being associated with an extremist political cause.  It suited his psychological need to be noticed.  In the case of the US at the time, the political affiliation that was most removed from the mainstream was Marxism.  Oswald wouldn't have received the same attention if he had joined a more mainstream political party.  Did he still support Marxist causes?  Sure.  But I do think much of its attraction was that he enjoyed the fantasy that he was a big shot and received attention for belonging to such an outlier group.   His political beliefs can't be separated from his own psychological impulses including anger and desire for attention.

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2022, 04:24:18 PM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2022, 04:28:49 PM »
Sorry, this Oswald wasn't a "Marxist" argument is not convincing.


If he was a marxist, why didn't he associate with other marxists? Why did he instead frequently associate with people who opposed communism?

Can you name a single marxist or communist that Oswald was known to associate with?

Within marxism, there are anti-Stalinists by the way. They're called "Trostskyites". Was Oswald a "Trotskyist" after leaving the USSR? it's possible, but we'll never know.

"Trotskyists are critical of Stalinism as they oppose Joseph Stalin's theory of socialism in one country in favour of Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution. Trotskyists criticize the bureaucracy and anti-democratic current developed in the Soviet Union under Stalin."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism#:~:text=Trotskyists%20are%20critical%20of%20Stalinism,the%20Soviet%20Union%20under%20Stalin.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 04:39:22 PM by Jon Banks »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2022, 04:33:22 PM »
Did he try to shoot Walker or not?

I don't know. Unlike the JFK example, it's clear that LHO didn't like Gen. Walker.

But the evidence of Oswald's involvement with the Walker shooting attempt remains inconclusive.

Do you think this below is not evidence of a person with extreme views?



I believe the Backyard photos are real but they don't tell us much about Oswald's political views or the message he was trying to send in by the photos (which may never have been seen in public if not for the JFK assassination).


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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2022, 04:33:22 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2022, 04:40:37 PM »
Here is DeMohrenschildt explaining his views on communism. These are hardly, to me, words of an hardcore anti-communist.

WC testimony:
Mr. JENNER. What is your attitude towards communism?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Towards communism, I wouldn't like to live in a Communist regime, I am not a Communist, never have been one. But if somebody likes it, let them have it. And I get along very well with fellow workers who are Communists. For instance, in Yugoslavia, I got along very well with them. Of course, we didn't discuss politics very much out there. On the contrary, you have to stay away from that subject. But I consider the other person's point of view.
If somebody is a Communist, let them be a Communist. That is his business.
Mr. JENNER. Have you----
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I do not try to propagandize him, and I see some good characteristics in communism.
Mr. JENNER. There are some indications that you have expressed that view from time to time during your lifetime while you are in this country, that there are some good qualities in communism.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, there we mean--or what do you mean? What is your concept of communism?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I am looking at communism more or less more from the economic point of view. I think it is a system that can work and works, and possibly for a very poor man, and a very undeveloped nation it may be a solution.
Mr. JENNER. A temporary one?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. A temporary one, yes---which eventually, and I believe in evolution, and I have seen through my life that communism in certain places has developed into a livable type of an economy, a way of life.

Again: "I think it is a system that can work and works, and possibly for a very poor man, and a very undeveloped nation it may be a solution."

That, again, isn't what I would call a hard anti-communist.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2022, 05:01:39 PM »
Here is DeMohrenschildt explaining his views on communism. These are hardly, to me, words of an hardcore anti-communist.

WC testimony:
Mr. JENNER. What is your attitude towards communism?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Towards communism, I wouldn't like to live in a Communist regime, I am not a Communist, never have been one. But if somebody likes it, let them have it. And I get along very well with fellow workers who are Communists. For instance, in Yugoslavia, I got along very well with them. Of course, we didn't discuss politics very much out there. On the contrary, you have to stay away from that subject. But I consider the other person's point of view.
If somebody is a Communist, let them be a Communist. That is his business.
Mr. JENNER. Have you----
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I do not try to propagandize him, and I see some good characteristics in communism.
Mr. JENNER. There are some indications that you have expressed that view from time to time during your lifetime while you are in this country, that there are some good qualities in communism.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now, there we mean--or what do you mean? What is your concept of communism?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I am looking at communism more or less more from the economic point of view. I think it is a system that can work and works, and possibly for a very poor man, and a very undeveloped nation it may be a solution.
Mr. JENNER. A temporary one?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. A temporary one, yes---which eventually, and I believe in evolution, and I have seen through my life that communism in certain places has developed into a livable type of an economy, a way of life.

Again: "I think it is a system that can work and works, and possibly for a very poor man, and a very undeveloped nation it may be a solution."

That, again, isn't what I would call a hard anti-communist.

Fair enough but DeMorenschildt was a "White Russian". They were the Russians who were sent into exile by the Bolshevik revolution. He may have had nuanced views on communism but he didn't like the Soviets and probably didn't like Castro either.

And we still can't point to a single person LHO associated with who identified as a marxist or communist. I know Oswald mostly lived in the South where people rarely overtly express pro-marxist views but if he was able to seek out and find Cuban exile activists, explain why he wasn't able to find other communists to associate with? Or why in his writings in 1963, he ridiculed American communists?

The non-conspiratorial answer aligns with Robert Oswald's view that Oswald was a contrarian and just expressed marxist views just for the sake of "being different".

The conspiratorial answer is that he created a persona as a marxist as part of some sort of intelligence operation (an operation that is not necessarily related to JFK's assassination).

With all that said, I do think he had genuine left-leaning political views but I don't believe he was a political fanatic or a devout marxist.

There's zero evidence that Oswald disliked JFK (personally or politically) and he had no known marxist associates...


"He made the point that he disliked capitalism because its foundation was the exploitation of the poor. He implied, but did not state directly, that he was disappointed in Russia because the full principles of Marxism were not lived up to and the gap between Marxist theory and the Russian practice disillusioned him with Russian communism. He said, ‘ Capitalism doesn’t work, communism doesn’t work. In the middle is socialism, and that doesn’t work either.’"


http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-oswald-speech-in-alabama

That doesn't sound like the words of a devoted marxist.

It's widely accepted across the political spectrum that neither pure capitalism nor pure socialism are good in practice. Mixed economies are what exists in most wealthy nations. That's a pretty reasonable view.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 05:18:59 PM by Jon Banks »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2022, 07:21:18 PM »



This was his final protest to a world that had ignored him, sometimes mocked him, always failed to acknowledge his superiority.


Robert Oswald, page 214 of “Lee, a Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald”


And I believe that a large part of his motive had to do with the last part (underlined by me) of Robert’s statement. Robert also indicates that a pattern was apparent to him regarding LHO’s behavior. I will post Robert’s exact words about that pattern when I locate them in the above referenced book.

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Re: Oswald's Motive
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2022, 07:21:18 PM »