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Author Topic: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"  (Read 12232 times)

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2022, 07:31:54 PM »
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Your total lack of reading comprehension is playing up again.

How does possession of the murder weapon implicate Oswald?

Marina never confirmed that "Oswald's rifle" was the murder weapon. In fact, no honest person ever said that.

How does lying to the police about the ownership of the rifle implicate Oswald?

Who lied to the police about ownership of the rifle? And how do you even know the police was lied to?

How does committing a similar crime with a similar MO just a few months before the assassination implicate Oswald?

If "committing a similar crime" implicates somebody in a specific murder just how many suspects would there have been for the Kennedy murder?

As per usual, your ignorance is mindblowing. Wow.

In her WC testimony, Marina Oswald confirmed that her husband owned a rifle.  There is no doubt about her testimony on that point even from a contrarian.  The DPD indicate that they asked Oswald about his ownership of a rifle and he denied owning any rifle in the US.  That is a fact unless you are suggesting that the DPD fabricated Oswald's DENIAL of ownership of the rifle.  And think how idiotic it would be for the DPD to lie about this of all things.  If the DPD were going to lie about what Oswald said to frame him, they would have said that he admitted owning the murder weapon not that he denied it.   HA HA HA.  You are unreal.   Aren't you embarrassed by this stupidity?  We are supposed to believe that Oswald admitted owning the rifle and the DPD for some inexplicable reason while trying to frame him for a crime using a rifle lied and said that he denied owing a rifle.  Classic contrarian lunacy. 

And you don't think having a MO in the conduct of crime is a signature that can link multiple crimes to a specific individual?  How many sniper assassination attempts took place in Dallas that year?  HA HA HA.  And we are supposed to ignore the similarities between such unique crimes?  Idiocy.  Marina doesn't have to "confirm" that Oswald's rifle was the murder weapon for her testimony to be used for that purpose.  Her testimony doesn't exist in a contrarian vacuum.  She confirms that he owned a rifle.  She took a picture of him holding that rifle.  From that photograph and the associated documentation including a specific serial number, there is no doubt it is the same rifle left at the crime scene.  Fired bullet casings from that rifle are found by the window from which the shots were fired.  Oswald lies about his ownership of a rifle.  Why does he do this if it was not used in the assassination?  Where is his rifle if different from the one found on the 6th floor? All of this is indicative of guilt in any criminal case in history.  No amount of contrarian nonsense changes it.  But again, are you saying that Marina was honest and did not lie about any of these matter or not?  That was the point before you deflected us again down the rabbit hole.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2022, 07:41:52 PM by Richard Smith »

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2022, 07:31:54 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2022, 08:16:14 PM »
In her WC testimony, Marina Oswald confirmed that her husband owned a rifle.  There is no doubt about her testimony on that point even from a contrarian.  The DPD indicate that they asked Oswald about his ownership of a rifle and he denied owning any rifle in the US.  That is a fact unless you are suggesting that the DPD fabricated Oswald's DENIAL of ownership of the rifle.  And think how idiotic it would be for the DPD to lie about this of all things.  If the DPD were going to lie about what Oswald said to frame him, they would have said that he admitted owning the murder weapon not that he denied it.   HA HA HA.  You are unreal.   Aren't you embarrassed by this stupidity?  We are supposed to believe that Oswald admitted owning the rifle and the DPD for some inexplicable reason while trying to frame him for a crime using a rifle lied and said that he denied owing a rifle.  Classic contrarian lunacy. 

And you don't think having a MO in the conduct of crime is a signature that can link multiple crimes to a specific individual?  How many sniper assassination attempts took place in Dallas that year?  HA HA HA.  And we are supposed to ignore the similarities between such unique crimes?  Idiocy.  Marina doesn't have to "confirm" that Oswald's rifle was the murder weapon for her testimony to be used for that purpose.  Her testimony doesn't exist in a contrarian vacuum.  She confirms that he owned a rifle.  She took a picture of him holding that rifle.  From that photograph and the associated documentation including a specific serial number, there is no doubt it is the same rifle left at the crime scene.  Fired bullet casings from that rifle are found by the window from which the shots were fired.  Oswald lies about his ownership of a rifle.  Why does he do this if it was not used in the assassination?  Where is his rifle if different from the one found on the 6th floor? All of this is indicative of guilt in any criminal case in history.  No amount of contrarian nonsense changes it.  But again, are you saying that Marina was honest and did not lie about any of these matter or not?  That was the point before you deflected us again down the rabbit hole.

In her WC testimony, Marina Oswald confirmed that her husband owned a rifle.

She also testified that she saw that rifle for the first time at Neely street in February 1963. If we believe that too, it couldn't have been the MC rifle ordered by Hidell in March 1963, right? Even less so, as the strap mount on the wooden stock of the rifle in the BY photos is at a different location than on the MC rifle found at the TSBD!

The DPD indicate that they asked Oswald about his ownership of a rifle and he denied owning any rifle in the US.

If he didn't own the rifle he was photographed with, he may well have been telling the truth. How in the world can you determine that he lied?

And you don't think having a MO in the conduct of crime is a signature that can link multiple crimes to a specific individual?  How many sniper assassination attempts took place in Dallas that year?

I have no idea, but why do you limit it to Dallas? Are you really saying that somebody with a similar MO in, for example, Fort Worth, wouldn't qualify?

But let's get real for a moment here. There is no conclusive evidence at all that Oswald ever took a shot at General Walker. There is in fact evidence that points to the bullet taken out of Walker's wall not being fired by the MC rifle. Not only is the description of the bullet taken for Walker's house different is at least seven different DPD reports but Walker himself also told the HSCA on multiple occassions that the bullet now in evidence as the "Walker bullet" isn't the one that was recovered from his house.

Btw isn't it remarkable that O.V. Wright also described a pointed bullet that is completely different than the one now in evidence as CE399? What do you think; is that just a coincidence?

And we are supposed to ignore the similarities between such unique crimes?  Idiocy.

What is unique about them?

Marina doesn't have to "confirm" that Oswald's rifle was the murder weapon for her testimony to be used for that purpose.

I understand that you don't like this, but of course Marina has to confirm that for her testimony about "a" rifle to be of any value and significance. Texas is full of people who own a rifle, so what, except more assumptions, makes Marina saying that Oswald owned a rifle enough to conclude that particular rifle was the murder weapon?

She confirms that he owned a rifle.

No, she confirmed that she saw a rifle in Neely street in February 1963 and she saw the wooden stock of a rifle wrapped in a blanket in late September 1963. Everything was conjecture on her part.

She took a picture of him holding that rifle.  From that photograph and the associated documentation including a specific serial number, there is no doubt it is the same rifle left at the crime scene.

Really? So when was the strap holder on the wooden stock moved then? And when did a 36" rifle (allegedly ordered by Oswald) become a 40,2" rifle?

Fired bullet casings from that rifle are found by the window from which the shots were fired.

Are these the shells Fritz picked up or are they the ones he threw back on the floor? When were those bullets fired, do you know, when we don't even know for sure if the MC rifle found at the TSBD was indeed fired that day?

Oswald lies about his ownership of a rifle.

Again, you don't know that he lied.

But again, are you saying that Marina was honest and did not lie about any of these matter or not?

You tell me;

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.
 

« Last Edit: December 20, 2022, 09:08:19 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2022, 10:11:16 PM »
How does possession of the murder weapon implicate Oswald?  Wow.  How does lying to the police about the ownership of the rifle implicate Oswald?  Wow.  How does committing a similar crime with a similar MO just a few months before the assassination implicate Oswald?  Wow.

"Possession of the murder weapon".  LOL.

"Lying to the police".  LOL

"Similar crime".  LOL.

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2022, 10:11:16 PM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2022, 10:24:25 PM »
In her WC testimony, Marina Oswald confirmed that her husband owned a rifle.

"Confirmed".  LOL.

Besides, when did Marina say which rifle her husband had?

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The DPD indicate that they asked Oswald about his ownership of a rifle and he denied owning any rifle in the US.

And what is your evidence that he owned a rifle (any rifle) on 11/22/63?  If you have none, then you cannot legitimately claim as a fact that he lied about it.

And even if any of this is actually true, how to you leap from that to "the murder weapon"?

You're the one who should be embarrassed by this stupidity.

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And you don't think having a MO in the conduct of crime is a signature that can link multiple crimes to a specific individual?

So by "Richard's" brilliant logic, if we can establish that Oswald shot Walker, then we can also conclude that he shot Kennedy, Tippit, and every other murder victim in Dallas and New Orleans in 1963, including himself.  Because they were "similar".  Do you ever listen to yourself?

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Marina doesn't have to "confirm" that Oswald's rifle was the murder weapon for her testimony to be used for that purpose.  Her testimony doesn't exist in a contrarian vacuum.  She confirms that he owned a rifle.

Wrong.  She saw part of a wooden stock that she took to be a rifle.  Six weeks earlier.

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She took a picture of him holding that rifle.  From that photograph and the associated documentation including a specific serial number, there is no doubt it is the same rifle left at the crime scene.

Absolutely false.

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Fired bullet casings from that rifle are found by the window from which the shots were fired.

How does this tell you when they were fired, or by whom?

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Oswald lies about his ownership of a rifle.

Only if you preassume that he actually owned a rifle.

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Why does he do this if it was not used in the assassination?

Argument from ignorance.  "I don't know" doesn't mean "I do know and it was used in the assassination, by Oswald".

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Where is his rifle if different from the one found on the 6th floor?

Another argument from ignorance.  You don't know he had a rifle at all on 11/22, much less C2766.

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All of this is indicative of guilt in any criminal case in history.

It's indicative of guilt in "Richard's" fevered imagination.  And no amount of false claims and misrepresentations changes that.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2022, 02:01:58 PM »


And you don't think having a MO in the conduct of crime is a signature that can link multiple crimes to a specific individual?  How many sniper assassination attempts took place in Dallas that year?

I have no idea, but why do you limit it to Dallas? Are you really saying that somebody with a similar MO in, for example, Fort Worth, wouldn't qualify?

But let's get real for a moment here. There is no conclusive evidence at all that Oswald ever took a shot at General Walker. There is in fact evidence that points to the bullet taken out of Walker's wall not being fired by the MC rifle. Not only is the description of the bullet taken for Walker's house different is at least seven different DPD reports but Walker himself also told the HSCA on multiple occassions that the bullet now in evidence as the "Walker bullet" isn't the one that was recovered from his house.

Btw isn't it remarkable that O.V. Wright also described a pointed bullet that is completely different than the one now in evidence as CE399? What do you think; is that just a coincidence?

And we are supposed to ignore the similarities between such unique crimes?  Idiocy.

What is unique about them?

Marina doesn't have to "confirm" that Oswald's rifle was the murder weapon for her testimony to be used for that purpose.

I understand that you don't like this, but of course Marina has to confirm that for her testimony about "a" rifle to be of any value and significance. Texas is full of people who own a rifle, so what, except more assumptions, makes Marina saying that Oswald owned a rifle enough to conclude that particular rifle was the murder weapon?



You believe there were sniper assassinations taking place in Ft. Worth?  LOL  How about this?  Let's extend the area to all of Texas or even all of the US.  How many sniper-type assassination attempts were taking place in the same timeframe as the Walker-JFK assassination in 1963?  Any?  I"m not aware of any.  It is a very unique MO.  Oswald admitted to Marina according to her testimony that he was responsible for the Walker attempt.  Did she lie about that or not?  If Oswald committed this crime as her testimony confirms, does that not have relevance to the JFK assassination since it shows a unique perhaps singular MO (i.e. attempting to kill a public figure with a rifle in a sniper attack).  The fact that both these two assassination attempts took place in Dallas within only a few months apart would be an incredible coincidence if not committed by the same person.   There is "no evidence" that Oswald took the shot at Walker?  He confessed to the crime to his own wife on the night of the event.  Before the public had even been informed there had been an attempt on Walker.  How could he have even known this had happened when he told Marina that he had fired the shot unless he was the assassin.  He also had recon photos of Walker's home etc.  Unreal.   Again, though, you haven't answered the original question.  Did Marina lie about this?  You and your contrarian sidekick have tried to have it both ways suggesting that she did but then denying that is what you have suggested.  So just yes or no.

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2022, 02:01:58 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2022, 04:24:59 PM »
You believe there were sniper assassinations taking place in Ft. Worth?  LOL  How about this?  Let's extend the area to all of Texas or even all of the US.  How many sniper-type assassination attempts were taking place in the same timeframe as the Walker-JFK assassination in 1963?  Any?  I"m not aware of any.  It is a very unique MO.  Oswald admitted to Marina according to her testimony that he was responsible for the Walker attempt.  Did she lie about that or not?  If Oswald committed this crime as her testimony confirms, does that not have relevance to the JFK assassination since it shows a unique perhaps singular MO (i.e. attempting to kill a public figure with a rifle in a sniper attack).  The fact that both these two assassination attempts took place in Dallas within only a few months apart would be an incredible coincidence if not committed by the same person.   There is "no evidence" that Oswald took the shot at Walker?  He confessed to the crime to his own wife on the night of the event.  Before the public had even been informed there had been an attempt on Walker.  How could he have even known this had happened when he told Marina that he had fired the shot unless he was the assassin.  He also had recon photos of Walker's home etc.  Unreal.   Again, though, you haven't answered the original question.  Did Marina lie about this?  You and your contrarian sidekick have tried to have it both ways suggesting that she did but then denying that is what you have suggested.  So just yes or no.

Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.


It is a known fact that she lied to investigators, before her WC testimony. She admitted it. She did so most likely because she feared either being deported to Russia or being charged with something.

When she testified she knew two things; her husband was dead and she wasn't going to be charged (who promised her that?) with anything, which gave her an easy way out by just telling the WC what they wanted to hear.

Marina's testimony is in no way credible and the mere fact that the WC had to rely on much of what she said to make their case only shows just how desperately weak that case really is.

There is "no evidence" that Oswald took the shot at Walker?  He confessed to the crime to his own wife on the night of the event.

So, Marina said so is your "evidence"? Hilarious!

But ok, explain why all the contemporary DPD reports mention a different kind of bullet and why General Walker went through great lengths to inform the HSCA that the so-called "Walker bullet" in evidence was in fact not the same bullet that was recovered from the wall in his house?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 07:08:34 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2022, 08:40:18 PM »
How does possession of the murder weapon implicate Oswald?  Wow. 

Wow, indeed. Nothing you posted about Marina supports the idea that Oswald possessed “the murder weapon” or even C2766.

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How does lying to the police about the ownership of the rifle implicate Oswald?  Wow.

Wow. You forgot to give any basis for calling this a “lie” beyond you just not believing it’s true.

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How does committing a similar crime with a similar MO just a few months before the assassination implicate Oswald?  Wow.

Wow. “Similar” meaning a bullet fired by somebody at somebody else. How unique.  ::)

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2022, 09:21:30 PM »
Oswald admitted to Marina according to her testimony that he was responsible for the Walker attempt.  Did she lie about that or not?  If Oswald committed this crime as her testimony confirms,

Her testimony “confirms” nothing. Even if what she said was true (and that’s a big “if” given her record of contradictory statements that fill up a 29 page document), that doesn’t mean that what she was told actually happened. It’s convenient how Lee Oswald is a “liar” when you want him to be.

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Re: Deconstructing Bugliosi's "53 pieces of evidence"
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2022, 09:21:30 PM »