LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Your downward-angle calculations are way off. Robert Frazier told the WC that a shot fired at Z161 would have required a downward angle of 40 degrees (5 H 171), so a shot fired over 20 frames earlier would have required a steeper downward angle.
DO THE MATH YOURSELF.

You did not address the point that your scenario requires us to believe that the gunman fired when the guy rod was close to his target in his field of view. This is as strained and far-fetched as the speculation that the gunman fired during the split-second break in the foliage at Z186 (even though the human brain requires 1/6th/second to process and react to an image).
YOUR COMMENTS MAKE NO SENSE.

As for the back-of-head fragments, apparently you have not read my initial posts in this thread.
U MIGHT BE CORRECT HERE. I AM NOT SURE HOW MANY FRAGMENTS WERE IN XRAY IN THE GALEA.

I reject as spurious your claim that the Towner film shows JFK reacting to a wound at around Z113 and that Kellerman heard "I'm hit" at pseudo-Z120. JFK is acting entirely normal from the time he comes into view in the Zapruder film until Z188 (when his cheeks appear to puff), and then his waving motion suddenly freezes at around Z200 and he starts to bring his hands toward his throat.
SO, WHEN DO U THINK KELLERMAN HEARD I AM HIT?
YES JFK ACTS NORMAL. HE REALIZES THAT HE IS NOT DEAD, EVEN THO HE HAS BEEN BADLY STUNG ON THE RIGHT TOP OF HIS HEAD. AND HE KEEPS SMILING. BUT WE CAN SEE THAT JACKIE & CONNALLY AINT SMILING.
NO, HIS WAVING MOTION IS NOT AFFECTED AS HE DISAPPEARS BEHIND THE SIGN, AND THEN HE CAN BE SEEN AT ABOUT Z224 WHERE HE HAS ALREADY BEEN SHOT (AT Z218).

I reject the idea that Powers and O'Donnell lied to cover up for Hickey. When O'Donnell spilled his guts to Tip O'Neill about hearing shots from the grassy knoll, he certainly would have mentioned that Hickey fired a shot if Hickey had indeed done so. Both Powers and O'Donnell were quite critical of the Secret Service's performance during the shooting. I seriously doubt they would have covered up for Hickey, especially later on when they revealed that they had lied in the WC testimony because the FBI pressured them to do so.
I NEVER SAID THAT POWERS LIED. I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT "LIED IN THE WC" BIT.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Your downward-angle calculations are way off. Robert Frazier told the WC that a shot fired at Z161 would have required a downward angle of 40 degrees (5 H 171), so a shot fired over 20 frames earlier would have required a steeper downward angle.
DO THE MATH YOURSELF.

You did not address the point that your scenario requires us to believe that the gunman fired when the guy rod was close to his target in his field of view. This is as strained and far-fetched as the speculation that the gunman fired during the split-second break in the foliage at Z186 (even though the human brain requires 1/6th/second to process and react to an image).
YOUR COMMENTS MAKE NO SENSE.

As for the back-of-head fragments, apparently you have not read my initial posts in this thread.
U MIGHT BE CORRECT HERE. I AM NOT SURE HOW MANY FRAGMENTS WERE IN XRAY IN THE GALEA.

I reject as spurious your claim that the Towner film shows JFK reacting to a wound at around Z113 and that Kellerman heard "I'm hit" at pseudo-Z120. JFK is acting entirely normal from the time he comes into view in the Zapruder film until Z188 (when his cheeks appear to puff), and then his waving motion suddenly freezes at around Z200 and he starts to bring his hands toward his throat.
SO, WHEN DO U THINK KELLERMAN HEARD I AM HIT?
YES JFK ACTS NORMAL. HE REALIZES THAT HE IS NOT DEAD, EVEN THO HE HAS BEEN BADLY STUNG ON THE RIGHT TOP OF HIS HEAD. AND HE KEEPS SMILING. BUT WE CAN SEE THAT JACKIE & CONNALLY AINT SMILING.
NO, HIS WAVING MOTION IS NOT AFFECTED AS HE DISAPPEARS BEHIND THE SIGN, AND THEN HE CAN BE SEEN AT ABOUT Z224 WHERE HE HAS ALREADY BEEN SHOT (AT Z218).

I reject the idea that Powers and O'Donnell lied to cover up for Hickey. When O'Donnell spilled his guts to Tip O'Neill about hearing shots from the grassy knoll, he certainly would have mentioned that Hickey fired a shot if Hickey had indeed done so. Both Powers and O'Donnell were quite critical of the Secret Service's performance during the shooting. I seriously doubt they would have covered up for Hickey, especially later on when they revealed that they had lied in the WC testimony because the FBI pressured them to do so.
I NEVER SAID THAT POWERS LIED. I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT "LIED IN THE WC" BIT.

Look, your theory utterly collapses on several points. For example, as I've noted, anyone can look at the Zapruder film and see that JFK is acting normal from the time he comes into clear view in Z160 until at least 28 frames later. During this time span, he shows no signs of any reaction to anything abnormal or painful. He looks calm and casual. This fact alone destroys your scenario.

It makes complete sense that no gunman would have fired when a metal pole was near his target in his field of view. It makes no sense to believe otherwise. Have you ever fired at a target with a rifle? If you were aiming at, say, a rabbit and as you panned and tracked the rabbit a large tree branch appeared near the rabbit, are you telling me you would fire? Really? I qualified at all three marksmanship levels in the Army and did some hunting. Even a relative novice would have enough common sense not to fire at his target if an intervening object was near his target in his field of view.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Look, your theory utterly collapses on several points. For example, as I've noted, anyone can look at the Zapruder film and see that JFK is acting normal from the time he comes into clear view in Z160 until at least 28 frames later. During this time span, he shows no signs of any reaction to anything abnormal or painful. He looks calm and casual. This fact alone destroys your scenario.
HE IS SMILING DESPITE BEING STUNG AT Z105.

It makes complete sense that no gunman would have fired when a metal pole was near his target in his field of view. It makes no sense to believe otherwise. Have you ever fired at a target with a rifle? If you were aiming at, say, a rabbit and as you panned and tracked the rabbit a large tree branch appeared near the rabbit, are you telling me you would fire? Really? I qualified at all three marksmanship levels in the Army and did some hunting. Even a relative novice would have enough common sense not to fire at his target if an intervening object was near his target in his field of view.
YES OSWALD SHOULD HAVE REALIZED THAT THE SKINNY LITTLE PUNY SIGNAL ARM COULD BE POSSIBLY IN HIS WAY. BUT HE DIDNT, OR IGNORED THAT.
OR, WORSE, THAT THE BIG LARGE SET OF SIGNALS & BACKBOARD COULD BE POSSIBLY IN HIS WAY.

WHAT WOULD U HAVE DONE IF U WERE OSWALD? WOULD U HAVE FIRED WHILE JFK WAS TURNING INTO ELM?
AT LEAST OSWALD REALIZED THAT THE 2 OR 3 TREES PARTIALLY BLOCKED HIS SHOTS FOR A WHILE.

AND HE GOT A BULLSEYE AT Z218. PROBLY FATAL.
AND DID NOT FIRE HIS LAST (THIRD) BULLET.

[Michael T. Griffith]

Look, your theory utterly collapses on several points. For example, as I've noted, anyone can look at the Zapruder film and see that JFK is acting normal from the time he comes into clear view in Z160 until at least 28 frames later. During this time span, he shows no signs of any reaction to anything abnormal or painful. He looks calm and casual. This fact alone destroys your scenario.
HE IS SMILING DESPITE BEING STUNG AT Z105.

It makes complete sense that no gunman would have fired when a metal pole was near his target in his field of view. It makes no sense to believe otherwise. Have you ever fired at a target with a rifle? If you were aiming at, say, a rabbit and as you panned and tracked the rabbit a large tree branch appeared near the rabbit, are you telling me you would fire? Really? I qualified at all three marksmanship levels in the Army and did some hunting. Even a relative novice would have enough common sense not to fire at his target if an intervening object was near his target in his field of view.
YES OSWALD SHOULD HAVE REALIZED THAT THE SKINNY LITTLE PUNY SIGNAL ARM COULD BE POSSIBLY IN HIS WAY. BUT HE DIDNT, OR IGNORED THAT.
OR, WORSE, THAT THE BIG LARGE SET OF SIGNALS & BACKBOARD COULD BE POSSIBLY IN HIS WAY.

WHAT WOULD U HAVE DONE IF U WERE OSWALD? WOULD U HAVE FIRED WHILE JFK WAS TURNING INTO ELM?
AT LEAST OSWALD REALIZED THAT THE 2 OR 3 TREES PARTIALLY BLOCKED HIS SHOTS FOR A WHILE.

AND HE GOT A BULLSEYE AT Z218. PROBLY FATAL.
AND DID NOT FIRE HIS LAST (THIRD) BULLET.

So JFK keeps smiling after several pieces of metal have hit him in the back of the head and hit him hard enough to penetrate into the outer table and hard enough to penetrate into the galea?! Seriously?! This is absurd. Ludicrous. He would have known immediately that something deadly serious was happening and would not have kept smiling and waving. This is where your theory abjectly collapses and implodes. It's downright bizarre to think that JFK would have kept smiling and waving after having several pieces of hot metal hit him in the back of the head hard enough to embed themselves in the outer table and the galea. Come on. Get serious.

You're still buying the Oswald myth? Oswald wasn't on the sixth floor during the shooting. He was downstairs on the first and second floor. Two people--Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles-- were on the stairs during the time frame when Oswald would have had to dash down those stairs to have any chance of being in the second-floor lunchroom to be seen by Officer Baker through the vestibule door, and without being seen by Roy Truly, who was running ahead of Officer Baker. Neither lady saw Oswald on the stairs.

Crucially, we now know that Victoria Adams' supervisor, Dorothy Garner, told authorities that she saw Adams go down the stairs before she saw Baker and Truly come up the stairs. This confirms Adams' original statement to the FBI that she left the window on the fourth floor 15-30 seconds after the shooting. There's no way that Adams and Styles could have missed seeing Oswald on the stairs if he had come down the stairs from the sixth floor. Barry Ernest wrote a whole book on this historic evidence titled The Girl on the Stairs.

I repeat that Hickey's ammo was checked and accounted for after the shooting, and no one in the follow-up car heard him fire a shot. Again, when O'Donnell and Powers later spilled the beans about hearing shots from the grassy knoll, there is no conceivable reason they would not have mentioned that Hickey fired a shot if he'd done so, since both men were very critical of the Secret Service's performance during the assassination.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

So JFK keeps smiling after several pieces of metal have hit him in the back of the head and hit him hard enough to penetrate into the outer table and hard enough to penetrate into the galea?! Seriously?! This is absurd. Ludicrous. He would have known immediately that something deadly serious was happening and would not have kept smiling and waving. This is where your theory abjectly collapses and implodes. It's downright bizarre to think that JFK would have kept smiling and waving after having several pieces of hot metal hit him in the back of the head hard enough to embed themselves in the outer table and the galea. Come on. Get serious.

You're still buying the Oswald myth? Oswald wasn't on the sixth floor during the shooting. He was downstairs on the first and second floor. Two people--Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles-- were on the stairs during the time frame when Oswald would have had to dash down those stairs to have any chance of being in the second-floor lunchroom to be seen by Officer Baker through the vestibule door, and without being seen by Roy Truly, who was running ahead of Officer Baker. Neither lady saw Oswald on the stairs.

Crucially, we now know that Victoria Adams' supervisor, Dorothy Garner, told authorities that she saw Adams go down the stairs before she saw Baker and Truly come up the stairs. This confirms Adams' original statement to the FBI that she left the window on the fourth floor 15-30 seconds after the shooting. There's no way that Adams and Styles could have missed seeing Oswald on the stairs if he had come down the stairs from the sixth floor. Barry Ernest wrote a whole book on this historic evidence titled The Girl on the Stairs.

I repeat that Hickey's ammo was checked and accounted for after the shooting, and no one in the follow-up car heard him fire a shot. Again, when O'Donnell and Powers later spilled the beans about hearing shots from the grassy knoll, there is no conceivable reason they would not have mentioned that Hickey fired a shot if he'd done so, since both men were very critical of the Secret Service's performance during the assassination.

I thort that the bits of lead in the galea were very small. JFK must have thort after a few seconds & after wiping his head that it had been a firework.
So, koz he ignored shot-1, jfk was doomed.
Did he ever get any instruction to duck down when there was any hint of trouble? I dont think so!

I have explained the movements of Oswald Adams & Garner. And Hine.
 https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2947.0.html

I have not seen any record of any accounting of AR15 ammo etc. Except that SSA Floyd Boring said that he himself checked the AR15 later. This was either that night, or next day.

[Michael T. Griffith]

I thort that the bits of lead in the galea were very small. JFK must have thort after a few seconds & after wiping his head that it had been a firework.

I find it hard to take you seriously when you float such utter nonsense. The painful sting of the 6.3 x 2.5 mm fragment's penetration into the outer table of the skull alone would have alerted JFK that something deadly serious was going on. Even the penetration of the small fragment into the galea would have been palpabale and would have alerted JFK that something dangerously unusual was happening. There is now way he would have been casually smiling and waving after the penetration of those two fragments.

I have explained the movements of Oswald Adams & Garner. And Hine.
 https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2947.0.html

Your explanation is riddled with errors and faulty assumptions. The WC's reenactment of Oswald's alleged movements was a joke that ignored every problematic element of his alleged actions and key elements of Baker and Truly's actions.

Since Garner saw Adams go down the stairs before she saw Truly and Baker coming up the stairs, and since Truly was running ahead of Baker on the stairs, WC apologists need to explain how Oswald could have already been in the second-floor lunchroom with a Coke in his hand when he encountered Baker (1) without being seen by Adams and Styles on the stairs, (2) without Jack Dougherty hearing him on the fifth-floor stairs, and (3) without Truly seeing him dash across the second-floor landing to enter the lunchroom (and to enter the lunchroom in time to buy a Coke from the soda machine before Baker confronted him). I'll save you some time and trouble: It's impossible.

The Baker-Oswald Encounter
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vFu2SyC373LpYKZRp6v5vtCDGzlri4N0/view?usp=sharing

Faulty Evidence: Problems with the Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald
See section titled "Oswald's Whereabouts at the Time of the Shooting" (pp. 27-30)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R1CZaCZfLA5QFjTCHNINcKxTH4cBiPfw/view?usp=sharing

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I find it hard to take you seriously when you float such utter nonsense. The painful sting of the 6.3 x 2.5 mm fragment's penetration into the outer table of the skull alone would have alerted JFK that something deadly serious was going on. Even the penetration of the small fragment into the galea would have been palpabale and would have alerted JFK that something dangerously unusual was happening. There is now way he would have been casually smiling and waving after the penetration of those two fragments.

Your explanation is riddled with errors and faulty assumptions. The WC's reenactment of Oswald's alleged movements was a joke that ignored every problematic element of his alleged actions and key elements of Baker and Truly's actions.

Since Garner saw Adams go down the stairs before she saw Truly and Baker coming up the stairs, and since Truly was running ahead of Baker on the stairs, WC apologists need to explain how Oswald could have already been in the second-floor lunchroom with a Coke in his hand when he encountered Baker (1) without being seen by Adams and Styles on the stairs, (2) without Jack Dougherty hearing him on the fifth-floor stairs, and (3) without Truly seeing him dash across the second-floor landing to enter the lunchroom (and to enter the lunchroom in time to buy a Coke from the soda machine before Baker confronted him). I'll save you some time and trouble: It's impossible.

The Baker-Oswald Encounter
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vFu2SyC373LpYKZRp6v5vtCDGzlri4N0/view?usp=sharing

Faulty Evidence: Problems with the Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald
See section titled "Oswald's Whereabouts at the Time of the Shooting" (pp. 27-30)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R1CZaCZfLA5QFjTCHNINcKxTH4cBiPfw/view?usp=sharing

I think that u have confused the fragments. No fragments were taken from the galea. The galea had small lead splatter only.

Re the Oswald etc timings, my description is perfect, & works.
I threw in the movements of Hines too, she entered the door to her office a couple of seconds before Oswald approached the lunchroom.
Oswald did not have a coke in his  hand, he got the coke after Baker left.
Dougherty might have been somewhere on the 5th floor when Oswald passed throo the 5th floor, but Dougherty was not necessarily near the stairs in a position to see Oswald.
We know that Dougherty was in front of the elevators 4 minutes later when the trapdoor on the roof slammed shut in the wind (Dougherty thort that it was a shot).

[Michael T. Griffith]

I think that u have confused the fragments. No fragments were taken from the galea. The galea had small lead splatter only.

Re the Oswald etc timings, my description is perfect, & works.
I threw in the movements of Hines too, she entered the door to her office a couple of seconds before Oswald approached the lunchroom.
Oswald did not have a coke in his  hand, he got the coke after Baker left.
Dougherty might have been somewhere on the 5th floor when Oswald passed throo the 5th floor, but Dougherty was not necessarily near the stairs in a position to see Oswald.
We know that Dougherty was in front of the elevators 4 minutes later when the trapdoor on the roof slammed shut in the wind (Dougherty thort that it was a shot).

You are totally confused--or are deflecting. I did not say that any fragments were removed from the galea, and the galea fragment--the McDonnel fragment--was not just "small lead splatter." You still have not read my first few posts in this thread, have you? What about the 6.3 x 2.5 mm fragment in the outer table? I notice you ignored it--again. You don't seem to understand, or are simply refusing to acknowledge, the back-of-head fragments that must be explained.

Do you have any idea how painful it would be to have even a "small lead splatter," much less the McDonnel fragment, hit your head hard enough to go through your scalp, through your outer table, and into your galea? Take the thinnest needle you can find and try pushing it into your head hard enough to penetrate through your scalp and outer table and into your galea--I guarantee you that it will hurt, that it will cause a painful sting.

Or, try taking a somewhat wider needle and push it into your head hard enough to go through your scalp and into your outer table. I promise you that it will cause an even more painful jab.

So enough with this nonsense that after JFK had a fragment penetrate into his galea and another fragment penetrate into his outer table, he did not react and even kept on smiling and waving. This is an unserious, absurd idea.

Oswald bought the coke before Baker saw him. Read the articles I cited.

Your explanation of Oswald's movements and timing does not even remotely work. It is loaded with specious, forced assumptions that you are compelled to make in order to try to get Oswald into the second-floor lunchroom without being seen or heard on the stairs and without being seen on the second-floor landing by Truly. Again, read the articles I cited.