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Author Topic: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments  (Read 36107 times)

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #152 on: December 18, 2023, 06:18:41 PM »
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Again, if you use the cowlick site, you must face the unsolvable problems with that site, starting with the fact that accepting that site means you must reject the authenticity of the top-of-head autopsy photos because they show intact cerebral cortex at that same location, which is obviously impossible if a bullet entered there.

I can see the cortex in the top-of-the-head autopsy photos but where is the cowlick-level site? Could you point to the cowlick entry site in that photo?

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But, if you accept the EOP site, you must admit that the autopsy brain photos are bogus because they show a virtually pristine cerebellum and right-rear occipital lobe, which is obviously absurd if a bullet entered at that location.

The brain drawing shows the right cerebrum "virtually intact". Are you wearing your Mormon underwear too tight?  :D


« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 08:50:14 PM by Jerry Organ »

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #152 on: December 18, 2023, 06:18:41 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #153 on: December 18, 2023, 11:03:06 PM »
I can see the cortex in the top-of-the-head autopsy photos but where is the cowlick-level site? Could you point to the cowlick entry site in that photo?

LOL! Uh, that's the point! It's not there! Sheesh. In the top-of-head photos, intact cerebral cortex is in/just below the very same location where the back-of-head photo shows the red spot, but the red spot is not there in the top-of-head photos, and instead we see only exposed and intact cerebral cortex, a physical impossibility if a bullet entered there.

I don't know how much more simply I can explain the problem. I thought the problem was already quite clear. Do you understand now?

This howler is almost as bad as your next one below.

The brain drawing shows the right cerebrum "virtually intact". Are you wearing your Mormon underwear too tight?  :D

When you blunder this badly, it doesn't help that you throw in bigotry on top of your blunder.

Yes, the autopsy photos show the right cerebrum virtually intact--it's lacerated but appears to be missing only a tiny fraction of its substance. Umm, but this poses no problem for the EOP entry site. I said that the autopsy photos show the cerebellum virtually intact. I said nothing about the right cerebrum, which is a totally different part of the brain (and also looks very different than the cerebellum). Allow me to quote the very sentence from my reply that you quoted and answered with your blundering argument:

But, if you accept the EOP site, you must admit that the autopsy brain photos are bogus because they show a virtually pristine cerebellum and right-rear occipital lobe, which is obviously absurd if a bullet entered at that location. (Emphasis added)

How did you get "right cerebrum" from "cerebellum"? Do you not have access to a basic brain diagram? Again, the cerebellum is a different part of the brain. It is below the cerebrum and looks very different than the cerebrum.

It is amazing that you, who pretends to be a serious student of the JFK medical evidence, could make such an embarrassing blunder about such a basic issue.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 11:07:22 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #154 on: December 18, 2023, 11:25:36 PM »
LOL! Uh, that's the point! It's not there! Sheesh. In the top-of-head photos, intact cerebral cortex is in/just below the very same location where the back-of-head photo shows the red spot, but the red spot is not there in the top-of-head photos, and instead we see only exposed and intact cerebral cortex, a physical impossibility if a bullet entered there.

I don't know how much more simply I can explain the problem. I thought the problem was already quite clear. Do you understand now?

This howler is almost as bad as your next one below.

Thanks. Wanted to get it on record. You think the "cowlick" wound entered at the vertex area. You really got some grasp of perspective and sightline analysis.  ::)

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When you blunder this badly, it doesn't help that you throw in bigotry on top of your blunder.

Yes, the autopsy photos show the right cerebrum virtually intact--it's lacerated but appears to be missing only a tiny fraction of its substance. Umm, but this poses no problem for the EOP entry site. I said that the autopsy photos show the cerebellum virtually intact. I said nothing about the right cerebrum, which is a totally different part of the brain (and also looks very different than the cerebellum). Allow me to quote the very sentence from my reply that you quoted and answered with your blundering argument:

But, if you accept the EOP site, you must admit that the autopsy brain photos are bogus because they show a virtually pristine cerebellum and right-rear occipital lobe, which is obviously absurd if a bullet entered at that location. (Emphasis added)

How did you get "right cerebrum" from "cerebellum"? Do you not have access to a basic brain diagram? Again, the cerebellum is a different part of the brain. It is below the cerebrum and looks very different than the cerebrum.

It is amazing that you, who pretends to be a serious student of the JFK medical evidence, could make such an embarrassing blunder about such a basic issue.

Well. So now you think the right-rear occiptal lobe (to which I was referring to) is cerebellum.  :D

Anybody can see the cerebellum is intact in the drawing I posted.

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #154 on: December 18, 2023, 11:25:36 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #155 on: December 18, 2023, 11:52:59 PM »
Thanks. Wanted to get it on record. You think the "cowlick" wound entered at the vertex area. You really got some grasp of perspective and sightline analysis.

Read: You'd rather lie than admit you goofed. As I have pointed out several times, even Dr. Joe Riley, a neuroanatomist, has noted that the intact cerebral cortex visible in the top-of-head photos is in the exact same location as the high entry wound identified by the Clark Panel and the HSCA FPP.

Surely you're not going to pretend that you don't know that this wound is commonly referred to as the cowlick entry site, are you? Surely you're not going to pretend you don't know that the HSCA FPP referred to the wound as being in the "cowlick" area, are you? Are you really asking people to believe such an obvious juvenile lie?

Well. So now you think the right-rear occiptal lobe (to which I was referring to) is cerebellum.  :D

HUH? What part of my reply could lead you to make such a silly, dishonest claim? Let's read what I wrote again:

But, if you accept the EOP site, you must admit that the autopsy brain photos are bogus because they show a virtually pristine cerebellum and right-rear occipital lobe, which is obviously absurd if a bullet entered at that location.

Did you catch the "and" between "cerebellum" and "right-rear occipital lobe"? How could you misconstrue this as even implying that the right-rear occipital lobe is cerebellum? How?

Clearly, you're just lying because you don't want to admit you severely goofed.

Anybody can see the cerebellum is intact in the drawing I posted.

LOL! Yeah, uh-huh. You're acting like a nine-year-old who's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar and who is comically trying to deny it.

How many times in this thread have I explained that you cannot accept the EOP entry site if you don't reject the autopsy brain photos because those photos show virtually no damage to the cerebellum and the righty-rear occipital lobe and because any bullet entering at the EOP site would have torn through the cerebellum and the right-rear occipital lobe?

You are so poorly versed on the basics of the medical evidence that you somehow misconstrued "cerebellum" and/or "right-rear occipital lobe" as "right cerebrum." Again, Google a brain diagram and learn the basics before you embarrass yourself again.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #156 on: December 19, 2023, 12:20:53 AM »
Read: You'd rather lie than admit you goofed. As I have pointed out several times, even Dr. Joe Riley, a neuroanatomist, has noted that the intact cerebral cortex visible in the top-of-head photos is in the exact same location as the high entry wound identified by the Clark Panel and the HSCA FPP.

Well, then, your "neuroanatomist" is as ignorant of perspective and sightline-analysis as you are. BTW, don't shift the blame onto a dead man; you--supposedly an expert in photogrammetry and perspective---failed to check Riley's claim. Not only that you highlighted it in your wrapped propaganda.

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Surely you're not going to pretend that you don't know that this wound is commonly referred to as the cowlick entry site, are you? Surely you're not going to pretend you don't know that the HSCA FPP referred to the wound as being in the "cowlick" area, are you? Are you really asking people to believe such an obvious juvenile lie?

I'm not going to go along with your fantasy that the cowlick entry site occured in the vertex area.

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HUH? What part of my reply could lead you to make such a silly, dishonest claim? Let's read what I wrote again:

But, if you accept the EOP site, you must admit that the autopsy brain photos are bogus because they show a virtually pristine cerebellum and right-rear occipital lobe, which is obviously absurd if a bullet entered at that location.

Did you catch the "and" between "cerebellum" and "right-rear occipital lobe"?

Oh, I noticed the word "and". That's why I was referring to the "right-rear occipital lobe" being damaged. Anyone can look at the brain drawing and see the "right-rear occipital lobe" of cerebrum is damaged (as opposed to your claim it wasn't).

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How could you misconstrue this as even implying that the right-rear occipital lobe is cerebellum? How?

Clearly, you're just lying because you don't want to admit you severely goofed.

No goof on my part. You said an EOP bullet couldn't have gone through the cerebellum and the right-right occipital lobe because they were undamaged.

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LOL! Yeah, uh-huh. You're acting like a nine-year-old who's been caught with his hand in the cookie jar and who is comically trying to deny it.

How many times in this thread have I explained that you cannot accept the EOP entry site if you don't reject the autopsy brain photos because those photos show virtually no damage to the cerebellum and the righty-rear occipital lobe and because any bullet entering at the EOP site would have torn through the cerebellum and the right-rear occipital lobe?

You are so poorly versed on the basics of the medical evidence that you somehow misconstrued "cerebellum" and/or "right-rear occipital lobe" as "right cerebrum." Again, Google a brain diagram and learn the basics before you embarrass yourself again.

You claimed the right-rear occipital lobe was undamaged. The brain drawing says otherwise. Since you claimed the right-rear occipital lobe was undamaged, I can only conclude you thought it part of the cerebellum.

Are you wearing your sacred Mormon underwear on your head?  :D

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #156 on: December 19, 2023, 12:20:53 AM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #157 on: December 19, 2023, 03:57:17 AM »
LOL! Uh, that's the point! It's not there! Sheesh. In the top-of-head photos, intact cerebral cortex is in/just below the very same location where the back-of-head photo shows the red spot, but the red spot is not there in the top-of-head photos, and instead we see only exposed and intact cerebral cortex, a physical impossibility if a bullet entered there.
In the top-of-the-head photos, there is loose scalp hanging backwards and downwards, covering the rear of the head. You wouldn't be able to see a cowlick wound in those photos whether or not it was there. 

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #158 on: December 19, 2023, 07:31:01 AM »
Humm, so you think that believing in a 7K-year-old Earth is far worse than believing in a flat Earth? Personally, I reject the young Earth view and believe the Earth is far older than 7K years, but one must admit that carbon dating can be wildly inaccurate. On the other hand, the Flat Earth Society claims that all the thousands of photos and videos of the Earth have been faked or doctored.

"That is it"?? A difference of 10 cm in the entry wound's location and a difference of 20-plus degrees in the head's forward tilt are enormous factors and issues. They are not trivial details but major, crucial factors. 

No, "the essential facts" are most certainly not "still there." Do you not grasp the fact that a 10-cm difference in the entry site's location and a 20-plus-degree difference in the head's forward tilt are gigantic and mutually incompatible differences?

I notice you ducked the issue of which entry site you're using. Why is that?

Again, if you use the cowlick site, you must face the unsolvable problems with that site, starting with the fact that accepting that site means you must reject the authenticity of the top-of-head autopsy photos because they show intact cerebral cortex at that same location, which is obviously impossible if a bullet entered there.

But, if you accept the EOP site, you must admit that the autopsy brain photos are bogus because they show a virtually pristine cerebellum and right-rear occipital lobe, which is obviously absurd if a bullet entered at that location.

Flat Earth at least has an understandable origin from a time when people simply did not know. As near as I can tell a 7000 years old Earth is a modern literal biblical interpretation complete with all the nutty additions to make it sound real. I went through 50 years never hearing of either Flat Earth or a 7000 year old Earth. Now in the last 15+ years I have heard of both beliefs firsthand from people who should have known better. I am beginning to think the world is regressing.

Unless I am missing something, CE 884 is just a picture illustration. An artist’s rendition. There is not a single notation on the picture anywhere that would lead a person to believe it was some kind of aid in determining an angular scale. Where did you come up with 60 degrees other than divining the illustration?

 Every report I ever read explains in great detail what took place. Where is the question here? The bullet entered the back of his head destroyed the right side of his brain and fractured his skull right into his sinuses and blew out the right side of his head. In the course of the bullet doing all this damage it disintegrated into multiple pieces. Where is the problem understanding this?

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #158 on: December 19, 2023, 07:31:01 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: LNers Can't Explain the Two Back-of-Head Bullet Fragments
« Reply #159 on: December 19, 2023, 02:10:28 PM »
Let's peel through your layers of falsehood and evasion by going back to the first comment in your previous reply:

Thanks. Wanted to get it on record. You think the "cowlick" wound entered at the vertex area. You really got some grasp of perspective and sightline analysis.

Oh, heavens to Betsy! The "vertex area"?? Where in the world from my comments could you have conjured up this nonsense? Do you even know what the vertex is, where it is? The vertex is the highest point on the top of the skull. It is at, or within a tiny fraction of an inch from, the junction of the coronal suture and the sagittal suture (aka the bregma). It is nowhere near any point that could be 10/11 cm above the EOP.

Just FYI, I've been talking about the problems with the cowlick entry site for over 20 years, starting with my 1998 article "Where Was JFK's Rear Head Entry Wound?" (https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/0Kk8ywdvi7E/m/7ywtz9dK_wAJ).

Well, then, your "neuroanatomist" is as ignorant of perspective and sightline-analysis as you are. BTW, don't shift the blame onto a dead man; you--supposedly an expert in photogrammetry and perspective---failed to check Riley's claim. Not only that you highlighted it in your wrapped propaganda. I'm not going to go along with your fantasy that the cowlick entry site occured in the vertex area. 

LOL! So now you, one of the most discredited and bungling clowns on any JFK forum--now you are going to call Dr. Joseph N. Riley "ignorant" and argue that he put the cowlick wound at the vertex?! I'm almost tempted to ask if you are a secret WC critic who is trying to make all lone-gunman theorists look bad.

Do you know who Dr. Riley was? He was a professor of neurology in the Department of Neurology at the State University of New York, in the Department of Neuroscience at the University of California, and in the Department of Neuroscience at the University of Florida. He had papers published in the Journal of Comparative Neurology, in the Brain Research Bulletin, and in Science, and his work was cited in those journals and in the Journal of Neuroscience Methods.

And yet you are actually getting on a public board and claiming that he put the cowlick entry wound at the vertex based on his analysis of the intact cerebral cortex in the top-of-head autopsy photos! Just wow. You are the gift that keeps on giving.

Let me post some of the observations that Dr. Riley wrote in his articles or posted in JFK discussions in Google Groups, which I included way back in 1998 in my article "Where Was JFK's Rear Head Entry Wound?":

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The HSCA says the scalp wound is 13 cm above the first prominent crease in the neck. [Let me go off on a tangent. Just how stupid can these people be? The scalp wound is 13 cm above lower/mid-neck, but that is supposed to be 10 cm above the EOP. Therefore, the EOP is 3 cm above the lower/mid-neck! Using the ruler in the photo, you can measure and 3 cm won't even put you at the level of the skull! Anyway, back to our story....]

On the scale drawing, 13 cm from the same location (more or less) puts you "slightly above the EOP" just where Humes et al placed it. . . .

The ruler is marked out in 0.5 cm gradations; you can make these out on clear copies of Dox's drawing. The Clark Panel/HSCA says that this wound is 10 cm above the EOP. So, what happens when we measure 10 cm "down" from the scalp wound? Are we anywhere close to the EOP? Nope, we're in the neck, missing the skull entirely. . . .

In the top-of-head autopsy photos, intact cerebral cortex is visible, as confirmed by both Dr. Bob Artwohl and Dr. Mantik. What is unappreciated is that this cortex (superior parietal lobe) corresponds to the HSCA's entrance site. . . .

We have autopsy photographs that show the top of JFK's head. Everyone agrees (including Dr. Bob Artwohl) that intact cerebral cortex is visible. If you are a neuroanatomist, you can identify the cerebral cortex (superior parietal lobule visible).

What's the significance of that? Simple: that is the part of cortex that is immediately under the high entrance wound--so, the brain at the point of the high entrance wound is not damaged. Now that is indeed a magic bullet. (https://kenrahn.com/Marsh/Autopsy/riley.html;   https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/0Kk8ywdvi7E/m/7ywtz9dK_wAJ)
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Oh, I noticed the word "and". That's why I was referring to the "right-rear occipital lobe" being damaged. Anyone can look at the brain drawing and see the "right-rear occipital lobe" of cerebrum is damaged (as opposed to your claim it wasn't).

What a hoot. You really should just stop with this juvenile dissembling, and bungling, and just admit you blundered.

"Cerebrum" refers to an area that contains two lobes of the brain. The cerebrum consists of the parietal lobe and the occipital lobe. The rear-bottom part of the occipital lobe is right next to the cerebellum.

Any bullet that hit at the EOP site at any kind of a downward angle would have torn through the right-rear part of the occipital lobe and the cerebellum. The HSCA FPP experts hammered the autopsy doctors on this point and stressed this point as one of their main reasons for rejecting the EOP site. You appear to be unaware of what the HSCA medical experts said about the condition of the cerebellum and the right-rear occipital lobe.

Dr. Loquvam hammered Finck with the point that he could see no pre-mortem damage to the cerebellum. The only damage that anyone has seen to the cerebellum in the autopsy brain photos is a tiny piece of tissue hanging down from the bottom of the cerebellum. Other than that, the cerebellum is intact and undamaged. Loquvam pointed out to Finck that the brain photos do not even show bleeding from/in the cerebellum. And when Loquvam asked Finck to explain how the cerebellum could be in this condition if a bullet had entered at the EOP site, Finck finally said, "I don't know."

Have you not read the transcript of the HSCA testimony of Finck, Boswell, and Humes? How can you not know this stuff and then pretend you have any business talking about the medical evidence?

BTW, it should be noted that Finck later told the ARRB that he saw "extensive damage" to the cerebellum. He did not raise this point when the HSCA FPP was trying to get him to renounce the EOP entry site. Had he done so, this would have directly challenged the accuracy/authenticity of the brain photos, and apparently Finck was unwilling to ignite a firestorm with the HSCA medical experts.

No goof on my part. You said an EOP bullet couldn't have gone through the cerebellum and the right-right occipital lobe because they were undamaged.

You claimed the right-rear occipital lobe was undamaged. The brain drawing says otherwise. Since you claimed the right-rear occipital lobe was undamaged, I can only conclude you thought it part of the cerebellum.

LOL! If you were so stupid as to reach such a comical, ridiculous conclusion from my comments, that is just further proof that you have no business talking about the JFK case. However, I don't believe you. I don't believe you were so clueless as to conclude that I thought the occipital lobe was part of the cerebellum. I think it is obvious that you just blundered and that you're trying to blame your blunder on me.

You claim that the brain drawing shows damage to the right-rear occipital lobe. Huh, that's curious, because the HSCA medical experts said the opposite. As I've noted, you don't seem to know what the HSCA FPP experts said about the right-rear occipital lobe and the cerebellum.

FPP member Dr. Charles Petty raised two objections to the EOP site based on the autopsy brain photos, one of which was the condition of the cerebellum. He put his other objection to Humes and Boswell, noting that the brain photos show no damage to the rear part of the “occipital lobes” (also known as the singular “occipital lobe”). I quote:

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Dr. PETTY. Well we have some interesting information in the form of the photographs of the brain and if this wound were way low we would wonder at the intact nature not only on the cerebellum but also on the posterior aspects of the occipital lobes, such as are shown in Figure 21. Here the cerebellum is intact as well as the occipital lobes, and this has concerned us right down the line as to where precisely the inshoot wound was, and this is why we found ourselves in a quandary and one of the reasons that we very much wanted to have you come down today. (7 HSCA 259)
-------------------------------

Again, have you not read the HSCA volumes? How can you not know this stuff?

Are you wearing your sacred Mormon underwear on your head?  :D

Such a comment once again shows that, in addition to being a liar, you're a crude, bigoted jerk.

In the top-of-the-head photos, there is loose scalp hanging backwards and downwards, covering the rear of the head. You wouldn't be able to see a cowlick wound in those photos whether or not it was there.

This misses/avoids the point. The point is that the part of the cerebral cortex that is directly beneath the location of the cowlick entry site is undamaged, which obviously proves that no bullet entered at that spot. Yes, the red spot is not visible in the top-of-head photos, as I have previously noted, but the cerebral cortex is undamaged in exactly the same spot where the red spot would be if the scalp were in its normal position, in exactly the same spot where the high entry wound was supposedly located.

I don’t know how much more plainly I can explain this. If a bullet entered at the Clark Panel/HSCA revised entry site, aka the high entry wound/the cowlick entry wound—if a bullet entered at this location, then there cannot be intact cerebral cortex directly beneath this entry point. It is impossible. A bullet could not have entered at the cowlick site without doing considerable damage to the underlying cerebral cortex.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2023, 03:00:57 PM by Michael T. Griffith »