Succession

[Bill Chapman]

 

Oswald saw them first. Duh.

[John Iacoletti]

At least they didn’t go to the Jerry Organ school of “it could have happened, therefore it did happen”.

[Bill Chapman]

And there weren't twelve people eye-locked on the backstairs, with all that was still happening outside (sirens, people ducking).

I think they went to the Micheal Griffith School of Histrionics.

Who were 'The12' (shoutout to Killing Eve btw). Surely they made noise as did Oswald, except he had good reason to be quiet on those stairs, while the others might just as well have been mannequins. By the way tests show 'the First 48' (seconds) could have been a factor while 'the First 59' (years) seem to be still too soon. Oswald Arse Kissers better back those chuckwagons up if they're fixin' to claim some sort of truth on mere estimations. No stopwatches, no evidence. Yet Garner's 'if he had been there I would have seen him' draws no fire from our Atheist friends.

Garner claims utter chaos, people running everywhere. By comparison, read any CTer and you'd think Oswald was in a freakin' library.
One's eyebrows remain raised.


Bill Chapman

[Walt Cakebread]

12:36 P.M. is when LBJ entered Parkland Hospital. Manchester is mainly referring to LBJ’s actions (and lack of actions) while at the hospital. The so called “wink” was supposedly at LBJ, not by LBJ.

I was referring to LBJs action's after he commandeered the President's airplane (AF-1).... And incidentally it makes no difference what John Mc Cormack was actually doing.....  LBJ THOUGHT that Mc Cormack was preparing to be sworn in as the acting President, and he was desperate.  I believe that LBJ placed a call to RFK to inform Bobby that his brother had been murdered and tell him that he was going to be sworn in as the new President.      You may recall that RFK had previously told LBJ that The Speaker of the House John Mc Cormack was to assume the duties of the office of the President until a new man could be elected to don the cloak of the President.

[Charles Collins]

I was referring to LBJs action's after he commandeered the President's airplane (AF-1).... And incidentally it makes no difference what John Mc Cormack was actually doing.....  LBJ THOUGHT that Mc Cormack was preparing to be sworn in as the acting President, and he was desperate.  I believe that LBJ placed a call to RFK to inform Bobby that his brother had been murdered and tell him that he was going to be sworn in as the new President.      You may recall that RFK had previously told LBJ that The Speaker of the House John Mc Cormack was to assume the duties of the office of the President until a new man could be elected to don the cloak of the President.

I disagree with:

1. LBJ thought McCormack was preparing to be sworn in as president.

  How the heck would LBJ know anything of the sort? I do remember that the AP (I believe it was) reported that LBJ had also been shot. If LBJ happened to see that on the TV in Air Force One (I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe that he did though…) he would know it wasn’t true. And LBJ would also know that any swearing in of McCormack would have no legal consequences because the constitution spells out the order of succession.

2.  I believe that LBJ placed a call to RFK to inform Bobby that his brother had been murdered and tell him that he was going to be sworn in as the new President.


RFK was already aware of the death of JFK by the time he talked to LBJ. Here’s another snip from “The Death of a President” by William Manchester:

…he accordingly placed a call to Robert Kennedy in Virginia, and moments later the white phone at the shallow end of Hickory Hill’s swimming pool rang.

  Johnson was not J. Edgar Hoover. He was a man of tact and sensitivity. He began by expressing his condolences. But he had just become the busiest man in the world, and after a few compassionate sentences he plunged into business. The murder, he said, “might be part of a world-wide plot.” In Johnson’s statement to the Warren Commission seven and a half months later he suggested that the Attorney General had agreed with this interpretation and had “discussed the practical problems at hand—problems of special urgency because we did not at that time have any information as to the motivation of the assassination or its possible implications.” In fact, Kennedy was unresponsive. He was not among those who suspected a grand conspiracy, and he didn’t understand what Johnson was talking about.

  “A lot of people down here think I should be sworn in right away,” said the new President, moving closer to the point. “Do you have any objection to that?”

  Kennedy was taken aback. It was scarcely an hour and a quarter since he had first heard of the shooting, less than an hour since he had learned that the wound had been fatal. As Attorney General he couldn’t understand the need for a rush, and on a personal level he preferred that any investiture be deferred until his brother’s body had been brought home.

  “Congressman Albert Thomas thinks I should take the oath here,” said Johnson, citing support. There was no answer, and he pressed on. “A lot of other people feel the same way.” The phone by the pool remained silent. Kennedy did not dissent; he said nothing. Changing to another tack, Johnson again referred to the plot, and then he requested information. According to Youngblood he asked “questions about who, when, and how he should take the Presidential oath.” Kennedy heard, “Who could swear me in?”

  “I’ll be glad to find out and call you back,” he answered.

  He depressed his receiver and asked the operator for Nick Katzenbach. It was 3 P.M. in Washington, according to Katzenbach’s secretary’s log, when, for the first time since the assassination, Robert Kennedy talked to his Deputy Attorney General. According to Katzenbach, Kennedy’s voice was “matter-of-fact, flat.” He told Nick, “Lyndon wants to be sworn in in Texas and wants to know who can administer the oath.”

  Katzenbach said, “Bob, I’m absolutely stunned.” There was no reply. He said, “My recollection is that anyone can administer the oath who administers oaths under federal or state laws. Do you want to hold on while I check?”

  Bob did, and using another Justice line Nick called Harold Reis in the Department’s Office of Legal Counsel.

  “That’s right,” said Reis. He reminded Katzenbach that Coolidge had been sworn in by his own father, a justice of the peace, and he added, “Of course, the oath’s in the Constitution.”

  He was the man Johnson should have been talking to. Telling the Deputy Attorney General was not necessary, but telling the new President was. What was required was someone with a gift for explaining the obvious. Actually, it wasn’t as obvious as it appeared to be; a great many eminent attorneys, Robert Kennedy among them, were so shaken that they had forgotten where they could lay their hands on the oath. Reis’s instincts were better than he knew. It may have been like pointing out to the Washington Redskins that they were entitled to four downs, but if the Redskin quarterback forgot, somebody would have to come to his rescue. No one had come to Johnson’s, and waiting for the Attorney General to phone back he was using other lines in an attempt to find out what was in any copy of The World Almanac.


3.    You may recall that RFK had previously told LBJ that The Speaker of the House John Mc Cormack was to assume the duties of the office of the President until a new man could be elected to don the cloak of the President

Sorry, but I don’t recall anything of the sort. And I think that your idea is (as usual) not based in reality.

[Walt Cakebread]

I disagree with:

1. LBJ thought McCormack was preparing to be sworn in as president.

  How the heck would LBJ know anything of the sort? I do remember that the AP (I believe it was) reported that LBJ had also been shot. If LBJ happened to see that on the TV in Air Force One (I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe that he did though…) he would know it wasn’t true. And LBJ would also know that any swearing in of McCormack would have no legal consequences because the constitution spells out the order of succession.

2.  I believe that LBJ placed a call to RFK to inform Bobby that his brother had been murdered and tell him that he was going to be sworn in as the new President.


RFK was already aware of the death of JFK by the time he talked to LBJ. Here’s another snip from “The Death of a President” by William Manchester:

…he accordingly placed a call to Robert Kennedy in Virginia, and moments later the white phone at the shallow end of Hickory Hill’s swimming pool rang.

  Johnson was not J. Edgar Hoover. He was a man of tact and sensitivity. He began by expressing his condolences. But he had just become the busiest man in the world, and after a few compassionate sentences he plunged into business. The murder, he said, “might be part of a world-wide plot.” In Johnson’s statement to the Warren Commission seven and a half months later he suggested that the Attorney General had agreed with this interpretation and had “discussed the practical problems at hand—problems of special urgency because we did not at that time have any information as to the motivation of the assassination or its possible implications.” In fact, Kennedy was unresponsive. He was not among those who suspected a grand conspiracy, and he didn’t understand what Johnson was talking about.

  “A lot of people down here think I should be sworn in right away,” said the new President, moving closer to the point. “Do you have any objection to that?”

  Kennedy was taken aback. It was scarcely an hour and a quarter since he had first heard of the shooting, less than an hour since he had learned that the wound had been fatal. As Attorney General he couldn’t understand the need for a rush, and on a personal level he preferred that any investiture be deferred until his brother’s body had been brought home.

  “Congressman Albert Thomas thinks I should take the oath here,” said Johnson, citing support. There was no answer, and he pressed on. “A lot of other people feel the same way.” The phone by the pool remained silent. Kennedy did not dissent; he said nothing. Changing to another tack, Johnson again referred to the plot, and then he requested information. According to Youngblood he asked “questions about who, when, and how he should take the Presidential oath.” Kennedy heard, “Who could swear me in?”

  “I’ll be glad to find out and call you back,” he answered.

  He depressed his receiver and asked the operator for Nick Katzenbach. It was 3 P.M. in Washington, according to Katzenbach’s secretary’s log, when, for the first time since the assassination, Robert Kennedy talked to his Deputy Attorney General. According to Katzenbach, Kennedy’s voice was “matter-of-fact, flat.” He told Nick, “Lyndon wants to be sworn in in Texas and wants to know who can administer the oath.”

  Katzenbach said, “Bob, I’m absolutely stunned.” There was no reply. He said, “My recollection is that anyone can administer the oath who administers oaths under federal or state laws. Do you want to hold on while I check?”

  Bob did, and using another Justice line Nick called Harold Reis in the Department’s Office of Legal Counsel.

  “That’s right,” said Reis. He reminded Katzenbach that Coolidge had been sworn in by his own father, a justice of the peace, and he added, “Of course, the oath’s in the Constitution.”

  He was the man Johnson should have been talking to. Telling the Deputy Attorney General was not necessary, but telling the new President was. What was required was someone with a gift for explaining the obvious. Actually, it wasn’t as obvious as it appeared to be; a great many eminent attorneys, Robert Kennedy among them, were so shaken that they had forgotten where they could lay their hands on the oath. Reis’s instincts were better than he knew. It may have been like pointing out to the Washington Redskins that they were entitled to four downs, but if the Redskin quarterback forgot, somebody would have to come to his rescue. No one had come to Johnson’s, and waiting for the Attorney General to phone back he was using other lines in an attempt to find out what was in any copy of The World Almanac.


3.    You may recall that RFK had previously told LBJ that The Speaker of the House John Mc Cormack was to assume the duties of the office of the President until a new man could be elected to don the cloak of the President

Sorry, but I don’t recall anything of the sort. And I think that your idea is (as usual) not based in reality.

It is worth noting that the most perceptive analysis of the two versions of II, 1, 5 was written by the sixty-eighth Attorney General, Robert F. Kennedy, in 1961.1 Robert Kennedy concluded that it was the sense of the Convention that should a President die in office “merely the powers and duties devolve on the Vice President, not the office itself.”

[Charles Collins]

It is worth noting that the most perceptive analysis of the two versions of II, 1, 5 was written by the sixty-eighth Attorney General, Robert F. Kennedy, in 1961.1 Robert Kennedy concluded that it was the sense of the Convention that should a President die in office “merely the powers and duties devolve on the Vice President, not the office itself.”

Where in that legal opinion does it say that the Speaker of the House succeeds to president (before the Vice President)? It doesn’t. What it says is that LBJ would have the power and duties of the president (but not the title or office). And it is just an opinion, not a legal ruling.

[Charles Collins]

This mystery has to do with the succession. So, I will post it here. I just read this on pages 287-288 of “The Death of a President” by William Manchester, and I am flabbergasted. I didn’t know this, should I have known this?


Remarkably, almost none of the Kennedys’ objects had been mislaid. In spite of the two-hour anarchy virtually every article they had brought to Dallas was leaving with them; the President’s clothes, wallet, and watch, and Mrs. Kennedy’s gloves, hat and handbag were all safely stowed aboard. There was one exception. Tripping down the ramp steps toward Earle and Dearie Cabell, who were waiting on the field, Sarah Hughes was hailed by a self-assured man—she remembers him as “rather officious”—who pointed at the black binding in her hand and asked, “Do you want that?” She shook her head. “How about this?” he inquired, fingering the 3 × 5 card with the text of the oath. Neither belonged to her, and so she surrendered them, assuming that he was some sort of security man.

  He wasn’t. His identity is a riddle. How a cipher could have penetrated Jesse Curry’s cordon is difficult to understand, but he did. The venture required enterprise and luck. The spoils, however, were priceless; he left the airport with a pair of unique souvenirs. The file card is the less valuable of the two. It is an archivist’s curiosity, of interest only to collectors and museums. The book, however, is something more. It was private property, and at this writing it remains untraced. President Kennedy’s family is entitled to it and would give a lot to have it back. By now, however, the anonymous cozener may have disposed of it. Either way, the fact remains that the last item of Kennedy memorabilia to be left in Dallas, his most cherished personal possession, was his Bible.


Here is a snip from pages 284-285 that explains where the Bible came from:

Then a voice from the semicircle of witnesses asked, “What about a Bible?” The Scriptures had always been part of the ritual. There was a pause in which everyone looked at everyone else, hoping that Lem Johns’s manifest included someone of exceptional piety. Then Joe Ayres reassured them. President Kennedy always carried his personal Bible under the lid of the table between the two beds in his private cabin, and Ayres went to fetch it.

  It was an unusual copy, and very personal; even Larry O’Brien, to whom Ayres handed it, had never seen it before. The cover was of tooled leather, the edges were hand-sewn; on the front there was a gold cross and, on the inside cover, the tiny sewn black-on-black initials, “JFK.” On flights alone the President had read it evenings before snapping off the night light. Larry carried the white box in which the President had kept it down the corridor, and as he re-entered the stateroom and stepped behind Sarah Hughes she nervously began the oath. Her voice quavered, “I do solemnly swear that I will—”

  “Just a minute, Judge,” Larry said, slipping the Bible from the box and handing it to her.

  She regarded it dubiously. Kennedy, she remembered, had quoted the Bible a lot. This must be his—after all, this was his plane—and that meant it was probably Catholic. She hesitated and decided it would be all right.5


My question is: Does this still remain a mystery? Or, has this bible been located since Manchester wrote his book?