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Author Topic: A time to receive and give (CE399)  (Read 39846 times)

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #216 on: March 15, 2023, 09:22:07 PM »
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You have expressed the problem better than I could.

That's because I am genuinely interested in trying to understand what's going on and allowing the evidence to guide my opinion. Unlike you, who's only interest is to peddle your long defunct theory that only you believe in.
Well, at least no one can accuse you of munificence!

It is not theory that we disagree on. It is the essential facts and the evidence to support them.

You agree with me that the first shot struck JFK. But where we disagree is on the third shot.  I maintain that the head shot was the third shot. There is evidence to support that. Lots of evidence.  You reject that evidence and prefer the evidence of a few that suggests the head shot was the second shot and there was a shot after the head shot.

So my "long defunct theory" is based on the first shot that you agree with and the third shot that almost everyone else agrees with.  If those are the facts establishing shots 1 and 3, and I suggest there is overwhelming evidence to support those two facts, then it is just a matter of trying to locate the time of the second shot. The 1......2...3 shot pattern (which is not a theory but is simply a conclusion that the abundant evidence of such a pattern is reliable) then tells you when/where the second shot occurred.

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The problems with CE399 are not solved by saying it was planted by Todd. They only get more complicated. 

Wrong.
The litany of problems I have outlined in my previous posts ALL go away if it is assumed Todd placed CE399 into the chain of custody.
What happens is that a new set of problems arise.
Yes, but they are still problems with CE399!!
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C399 is genuine because it was fired by C2766 and the trajectory of the first shot through JFK went to JBC's left side where there was minimal damage to JBC or to the car. That bullet had to have remained intact.  And prior to Robert Frazier receiving it from Todd, there was no way that this would have been known.

...This automatically rules out trying to mimic a bullet that caused the wounds to Connally as, common sense would dictate, this would require a bullet with a smashed nose.

Was it assumed on the night of the assassination that there had been three hits - one through JFK's neck, one causing the damage to Connally and the headshot. If so, the only bullet they could have been trying to replicate would have been the one that passed through JFK's neck.
Exactly my point.  CE399 does not have to explain JBC's chest and wrist wounds and until March 1964 no one was suggesting that CE399 caused those wounds. Then David Belin came along and had Robert Frazier opine that JBC could not have been hit after z240 (an opinion that, in my view, he was not qualified nor sufficiently knowledgeable about the facts to give).  Since the FBI had mistakenly concluded that the first shot occurred no earlier than z210, that did not leave enough time for two shots (one for JFK and one for JBC).  That is when Arlen Specter came up with the SBT.

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #216 on: March 15, 2023, 09:22:07 PM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #217 on: March 15, 2023, 10:14:40 PM »
You has a strawman argeyment
Not a strawman at all. Martin said something that is commonly said --and maybe based on some grain of truth-- but isn't correct. Martin responded with t o the effect that impossible to have complete information about a situation. I replied with an example where complete information is achievable. That is, Martin responded directly to what I said, and I responded directly to what he said.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #218 on: March 15, 2023, 11:14:39 PM »
You has a strawman argeyment

Alan, I wish you all the best if you are planning to debate Todd, but be aware that he will try to drag you down to his level.
Either that or he will keep on arguing, with pathetic arguments, until you lose all energy and want to jump off a cliff.

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #218 on: March 15, 2023, 11:14:39 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #219 on: March 15, 2023, 11:38:22 PM »
Not a strawman at all. Martin said something that is commonly said --and maybe based on some grain of truth-- but isn't correct. Martin responded with t o the effect that impossible to have complete information about a situation.

No he didn'tses. He used the word "case", meaning criminal case. You then cutely strawmanned what he'd said.

Now go bore someone else with your pocketful of nonsenses

 ::)

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #220 on: March 16, 2023, 05:00:02 AM »
Alan, I wish you all the best if you are planning to debate Todd, but be aware that he will try to drag you down to his level.
Either that or he will keep on arguing, with pathetic arguments, until you lose all energy and want to jump off a cliff.
Martin, why is it that every time you try to come off High and Mighty you wind up making yourself look huffy and prissy?

Anyway, any "descent" you make is purely your own doing. Don't blame me for your own mistakes.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 05:18:29 AM by Mitch Todd »

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #220 on: March 16, 2023, 05:00:02 AM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #221 on: March 16, 2023, 05:07:41 AM »
No he didn'tses. He used the word "case", meaning criminal case. You then cutely strawmanned what he'd said.

Now go bore someone else with your pocketful of nonsenses

 ::)
I'm the person who brought the word "case" into the discussion ("However, in cases where complete information is available, then absence of evidence is absolute proof of absence."). I meant it in the most general, Mirriam-Webster-definition-1.a. meaning: "a set of circumstances or conditions."

Unlike you, I cannot speak to being able to read Martin's mind for secret meanings. While he uses the term "case" in his response, there is nothing in the context of his reply that indicates any other, more specific meaning that what I'd originally said.

Whatever you seek to impose otherwise is likely to be merely the act of your own imagination.

 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 05:15:34 AM by Mitch Todd »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #222 on: March 16, 2023, 10:22:09 AM »
No, not really.
Let's see. I have this theory that I have a set of Bentley keys in my pantses pocketses. So whats does I has in my pocketses?

[turn out left pocket]

No evidence of Bentley keys here

[turn out right pocket]

No evidence of Bentley keys here, either.

I've run out of pocketses, and having turned them out have completed the task of gathering all available information about what is in them, so I definitely did not have Bentley keys in my pocketses. QED

so I definitely did not have Bentley keys in my pocketses.

This statement is incorrect.
You may conclude from your example that you didn't have Bentley keys in your pocketses ( ::)) at the time you turned them out.
The Bentley keys may have been removed before you checked your pocketses, so you can't say definitively that you did not have Bentley keys in your pocketses.
What tests have been performed to detect the presence or absence Bentley key in your pocketses prior to you turning them out? We are missing key information (do you see what I did there? "Key" information. Do you get it? "Key" as in...oh, forget it..."

Even in this most basic of all examples there is not complete information.
The simplest criminal case is manifestly more complex than this, so the idea of having "complete information" is a non-starter.


« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 11:38:49 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #223 on: March 16, 2023, 10:42:48 AM »
And so the conversation we had with Andrew is going off the rails, just like Todd intended.
Have fun with the next 10 pages or so of yes vs no arguments.

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Re: A time to receive and give (CE399)
« Reply #223 on: March 16, 2023, 10:42:48 AM »