A time to receive and give (CE399)

[Martin Weidmann]

Well the authors aren't going to admit that's what happened. 

What's in the rest of the phone transcript of their call to Odum? Is there a transcript for their visit to Odum?

That doesn't answer my question. You claimed Odum was "cajoled", so you need to be able to show where you obtained this information. If you can't, you shouldn't use such a word.

Some requests from the Commission didn't warrant FD-302s. ( Link ) FD-302s are normally done for criminal cases that could lead to a trial; Odum probably had an active case load of such investigations. Which is why he later thought he would have prepared a 302 for the requests from the Commission, when he probably only relayed what he was told to the author of the AirTel.

So, Odum talks to Tomlinson and Wright. Both men fail to identify the bullet shown to them. Odum files no FD 302 reports, although he normally always does. Then suddenly SAC Shanklin writes in his Airtel message that both men could not identify the bullet. How did Shanklin know, without any report from Odum? Do you really think Shanklin is going to communicate to his superiors what an agent told him?

And then some anonymous person at the FBI in Washington writes CE2011 in which it suddenly says that (I paraphrase) although Tomlinson and Wright could not identify the bullet they still thought it could be the same one. Now where did that last part come from? All the FBI in Washington had was Shanklin's Airtel and that doesn't say both men thought it could be the same one? Are we to believe that somehow Odum passed on information to Washington, without writing anything down and passing by his superior officer Shanklin?

The WC asked the FBI to authenticate pieces of evidence that could link their prime suspect to the crime and the FBI just does away with normal procedures and doesn't document anything correctly. Really?

And then there is this; if Odum received CE399 and later returned it, his name or initial should be recorded in the chain of custody! It isn't... Go figure

Possible Tomlinson forgot about the July 1964 visit or thought the interviewer in 1966 wanted to know about the first time he was shown the bullet after the assassination.

And possibly Tomlinson did not forget at all and knew exactly what he was saying.

He clearly states to Marcus that he has been shown a bullet once, by Shanklin from the FBI. This encounter took place about a week after the assassination and is documented in at least one Secret Service report.

Odum said he couldn't remember.

One can gauge the primary motivation for Aguilar/Thompson's cajoling of Odum, with:

    "For not only was Odum’s name absent from the FBI’s once
     secret files, it was also it difficult to imagine a motive for
     him to besmirch the reputation of the agency he had
     worked for and admired."

The guy said he couldn't remember but that it might have happened. But the authors score it as a victory that "besmirches" the Bureau.

The AirTel has all the information and is formatted the same same as a FC-302. Odum was 82 and trying to remember some insignificant request mission from four decades ago (the "Magic Bullet" acquired most of its notoriety later). Odum might have thought they were talking about him having the bullet in hand on the day of the assassination. We'll never know because the authors' phone and visit transcripts are sealed until 2072.

The AirTel has all the information and is formatted the same same as a FC-302.

If the Airtel has all the information and was used as a subtitute for a FD 302, then why not simply let Odum write his reports as per usual instead of SAC Shanklin writing it for him?

Odum was 82 and trying to remember some insignificant request mission from four decades ago

Being old doesn't automatically mean you don't remember something that's part of the biggest case of the decade, if not century.
When he died, my father was 90 and even in his last days he could tell us about all sorts of things that actually happened when I was growing up.

Odum might have thought they were talking about him having the bullet in hand on the day of the assassination.

And he just might have remembered everything correctly.

You are twisting and turning in every direction to keep your favorite narrative alive. It isn't working!
 

[Martin Weidmann]

And then there is this; if Odum received CE399 and later returned it, his name or initial should be recorded in the chain of custody! It isn't... Go figure

Is this the question that got Andrew and Jerry running for cover?

[Andrew Mason]

And then there is this; if Odum received CE399 and later returned it, his name or initial should be recorded in the chain of custody! It isn't... Go figure

Is this the question that got Andrew and Jerry running for cover?

Only one person needs to initial the bullet.  Why would Odum add his initials to a bullet that already has been initialed by an FBI agent?

[Martin Weidmann]

Only one person needs to initial the bullet.  Why would Odum add his initials to a bullet that already has been initialed by an FBI agent?

Nobody said anything about adding his initials to the bullet, but the bullet was allegedly sent from Washington to Dallas and back in june 1964.
The chain of custody requires that it is recorded who had the bullet and when. There is no such registration for Odum receiving or returning the bullet.

Only one person needs to initial the bullet.

Really? Then why did Frazier mark it after Todd had already done so?

[Dan O'meara]

My interpretation of the evidence regarding CE 399 is that at some point this bullet was introduced into the chain of custody.
It may not necessarily have been the case but after examining the evidence I felt it was the best interpretation, the one that made sense of the many anomalies surrounding this aspect of the case.
In order for this to be the case the bullet, CE 399, would have to be fired from the MC in order to match the rifle. However, this couldn't have been done until the rifle reached the FBI lab in Washington on Saturday morning.
By Saturday evening an evidence report compiled by Frazier and signed by Hoover was sent to Chief Curry:



At the end it identifies Q1, the bullet supposedly found on the stretcher, as "a 6.5 millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano rifle bullet. Specimen Q1 weighs 158.6 grains. It consists of a copper alloy jacket with a lead core".
The weight and general description of the bullet is identifies it as CE 399. Which means that if the bullet was indeed a plant it must have been fired from the rifle on the Saturday, before the evidence was returned to Dallas Saturday night.
Until now it has been a matter of pure speculation that the rifle was fired that day in order for it to be possible to produce a bullet which could be planted in the chain of custody.
Whilst trying to track down a decent copy of a photo of the evidence that was taken by Vince Drain to Washington I came across an article by Ken Rahn documenting Drain's recollection of the assassination, which includes this passage:

"...I was taken by helicopter over to the Justice Building and landed on the White House lawn. During this time, I had an armed guard from the Air Force until I got safely into the Justice Building.
I talked to Mr. Hoover briefly and then watched them do a lot of the experiments such as firing the rifle, looking for prints, ballistic markings, hairs, fibers, blood stains and anything else that later, down the road, might be relevant to evidence which could be used in the prosecution.
By around midnight on Saturday night, they had the plane ready to go..."

It would appear that at some point on Saturday the FBI lab was in possession of bullets fired from the MC found on the 6th floor.

PS: Does anyone have a decent copy of a photograph of the evidence Drain took from Dallas on Friday night?

[Tim Nickerson]

Well the authors aren't going to admit that's what happened. 

What's in the rest of the phone transcript of their call to Odum? Is there a transcript for their visit to Odum?

Some requests from the Commission didn't warrant FD-302s. ( Link ) FD-302s are normally done for criminal cases that could lead to a trial; Odum probably had an active case load of such investigations. Which is why he later thought he would have prepared a 302 for the requests from the Commission, when he probably only relayed what he was told to the author of the AirTel.

Possible Tomlinson forgot about the July 1964 visit or thought the interviewer in 1966 wanted to know about the first time he was shown the bullet after the assassination.

Bardwell Odum ultimately deferred to the FBI documentation. He essentially told Thompson that if FBI documents say that he showed CE-399 to Wright and Tomlinson, then he did indeed. He also recalled being in Wright's office sometime after the assasination.

[Martin Weidmann]

Bardwell Odum ultimately deferred to the FBI documentation. He essentially told Thompson that if FBI documents say that he showed CE-399 to Wright and Tomlinson, then he did indeed. He also recalled being in Wright's office sometime after the assasination.

Then why is his name not mentioned in the chain of custody for CE399?

[Tim Nickerson]

Then why is his name not mentioned in the chain of custody for CE399?

Why would it be? The bullet didn't really need a chain of custody anyway. Also, it had already been examined by the FBI and admitted into evidence during WC testimony.