When the SN was built

[Zeon Mason]

Is Charles certain about this 12:15 time stamp for the Bronson film clip of the box on the SN window ledge?

For years it’s been stated that the Bronson film
sequence showing the box was approx 12:25

Is a siren ambulance arriving for the epileptic man enough to cause a  shooter to completely abandon his plan to use a (theoretically) previously prepared SE window , and move hastily with rifle in hand and STAND close to a wide open SW window ?

The “gun holding” person (imo) would not need to have gotten as close as 3-5 ft to the SW window to be able to see that no motorcade had yet entered Dealey plaza.

One siren and the shooter is apparently over reacting and he wanted to know the source of that siren, thus he had to move to within 5ft to be able to have LOS to that  source which was the ambulance below in front of the TSBD entrance?

He must have  forgotten momentarily that he had his rifle displayed and being that close to a fully open window would allow a potential LARGE no. of Persons gathered in Dealey plaza to have LOS to himself and the rifle?

[Charles Collins]

Is Charles certain about this 12:15 time stamp for the Bronson film clip of the box on the SN window ledge?

For years it’s been stated that the Bronson film
sequence showing the box was approx 12:25

Is a siren ambulance arriving for the epileptic man enough to cause a  shooter to completely abandon his plan to use a (theoretically) previously prepared SE window , and move hastily with rifle in hand and STAND close to a wide open SW window ?

The “gun holding” person (imo) would not need to have gotten as close as 3-5 ft to the SW window to be able to see that no motorcade had yet entered Dealey plaza.

One siren and the shooter is apparently over reacting and he wanted to know the source of that siren, thus he had to move to within 5ft to be able to have LOS to that  source which was the ambulance below in front of the TSBD entrance?

He must have  forgotten momentarily that he had his rifle displayed and being that close to a fully open window would allow a potential LARGE no. of Persons gathered in Dealey plaza to have LOS to himself and the rifle?

The time of 12:15 is based on my memory (which is not always accurate) of what Arnold Rowland said and the time stamps on the DPD tapes. James indicated a time of 12:23 which I think is reasonable because it must have taken a little time to attend to the patient and get him onboard the ambulance.

It is just a possible theory which would explain (to me at least) Arnold Rowland’s alleged sighting of a man with a rifle. You can disagree with the theory. I am not offering it as anything more than conjecture.



Edit: My memory seems to be pretty good regarding the time:


Mr. Rowland.  …There was--just before I observed him there was a police motorcycle parked just on the street, not in front of us, just a little past us, and the radio was on it giving the details of the motorcade, where it was positioned, and right after the time I noticed him and when my wife was pointing this other thing to me, I don't remember what that was, the dispatcher came on and gave the position of the motorcade as being on Cedar Springs. This would be in the area of Turtle Creek, down in that area. I can't remember the street's name but I know where it is at. And this was the position of the motorcade and it was about 15 or 16 after 12.   



DPD Channel II:

12:15 pm  Station break.

531-9 On Cedar Springs off Turtle Creak.


http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf

[Alan Ford]

He must have  forgotten momentarily that he had his rifle displayed and being that close to a fully open window would allow a potential LARGE no. of Persons gathered in Dealey plaza to have LOS to himself and the rifle?

And what exactly would be the problem here, Mr. Mason?

[Alan Ford]

Edit: My memory seems to be pretty good regarding the time:


Mr. Rowland.  …There was--just before I observed him there was a police motorcycle parked just on the street, not in front of us, just a little past us, and the radio was on it giving the details of the motorcade, where it was positioned, and right after the time I noticed him and when my wife was pointing this other thing to me, I don't remember what that was, the dispatcher came on and gave the position of the motorcade as being on Cedar Springs. This would be in the area of Turtle Creek, down in that area. I can't remember the street's name but I know where it is at. And this was the position of the motorcade and it was about 15 or 16 after 12.   



DPD Channel II:

12:15 pm  Station break.

531-9 On Cedar Springs off Turtle Creak.

Actually it shows Mr. Rowland's memory to be exceptionally good. He was a brilliant witness, only not for the WC. Explains Mr. Specter's exasperation, I guess! 

[Charles Collins]

Actually it shows Mr. Rowland's memory to be exceptionally good. He was a brilliant witness, only not for the WC. Explains Mr. Specter's exasperation, I guess! 

Mrs. Rowland straightened things out:


Mr. BELIN. Now, has he ever told you that he had seen anyone else on the sixth floor other than this man with the gun that you described in the southwest corner window?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Has he ever told you that he told anyone else that he saw anyone else on the sixth floor?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No, sir.
.
.
.
Mr. BELIN. Sometimes some people are prone to exaggerate more than others, and without in any way meaning to take away from the testimony of your husband as to what he saw in the building at the time, just from your general experience, do you feel you can rely on everything that your husband says?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I don't feel that I can rely on everything anybody says.
Mr. BELIN. Well, this is really an unfair question for me to ask any wife about her husband, and I am not asking it very correctly, but---
Mrs. ROWLAND. At times my husband is prone to exaggerate. Does that answer it?
Mr. BELIN. I think it does.
Is there anything else you want to add to that, or not?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Usually his exaggerations are not concerned with anything other than himself. They are usually to boast his ego. They usually say that he is really smarter than he is, or he is a better salesman than he is, something like that.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you care to add?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No, sir.

[Alan Ford]

Mrs. Rowland straightened things out:


Mr. BELIN. Now, has he ever told you that he had seen anyone else on the sixth floor other than this man with the gun that you described in the southwest corner window?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Has he ever told you that he told anyone else that he saw anyone else on the sixth floor?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No, sir.

~Grin~

So what? The man with the rifle was highly significant to Mr. Rowland, at the time and then even more so in hindsight. The unarmed 'elderly Negro' (bald, bright-plaid-shirt-wearing) not so much.

But nice try! 

[Charles Collins]

~Grin~

So what? The man with the rifle was highly significant to Mr. Rowland, at the time and then even more so in hindsight. The unarmed 'elderly Negro' (bald, bright-plaid-shirt-wearing) not so much.

But nice try! 

Here are a few more. As you can see, we humans do not have instant replay memories that get all the details accurately every time. If Arnold Rowland really thought he saw a black man in the southeast corner window, I believe that he could have seen one of the ones on the fifth floor and misremembered it as being the sixth floor.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything about any other people in any other windows?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No; I don't think so.
Mr. BELIN. Now, did you notice any other people standing in any other windows or leaning out?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I am not sure if I did at that moment.
Mr. BELIN. Later on?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I saw some people either earlier or later looking out the windows.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything about any of the people you saw?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Some of them were colored men. I don't think I saw any women.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any white men?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I am not positive.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where you saw any of these Negro men?
Mrs. ROWLAND. On a lower floor, about the fourth floor, I think, and nearer the center window. The windows nearer the center.



Mr. BELIN - Did you see any other people on the sixth floor?
Mr. EDWARDS - No.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice whether or not there were any, or just did you look and see any?
Mr. EDWARDS - I notice that there---I just didn't see any.
Mr. BELIN - What about the next floor above? Did you see any people on the floor above?
Mr. EDWARDS - No.
Mr. BELIN - What about on any floors below? See any people on the fifth floor?
Mr. EDWARDS - No.
Mr. BELIN - Fourth floor?
Mr. EDWARDS - No.
Mr. BELIN - Third floor?
Mr. EDWARDS - Possibly.
Mr. BELIN - Second floor?
Mr. EDWARDS - I believe so.
Mr. BELIN - First floor?
Mr. EDWARDS - I don't know.



Mr. BELIN. Did you see any other people in any other windows that you can recollect?
Mr. BRENNAN. Not on that floor.
There was no other person on that floor that ever came to the window that I noticed.
There were people on the next floor down, which is the fifth floor, colored guys. In particular, I only remember two that I identified.

[Jack Nessan]

Literally nobody has ever made such an argument.

Are you sure?