When the SN was built

[Charles Collins]

Another interesting insight into the Warren Gullible methodology: I will reject as 'not making sense' any piece of evidence that I cannot make conformable to the Lone-Nut-LHO scenario. If, however, I can find a way to make it conformable to the Lone-Nut-LHO scenario, I will declare that it 'makes sense' after all

 

You don’t have a clue as to what my thinking was. Stop acting like you do. Arnold Rowland said he saw something that no one else did. Being skeptical would be considered normal for most folks. However, instead of dismissing his account without giving it a fair trial, I tested his description in my 3D model. I was impressed that he got so many details right. So, I think we should be open to the possibility that Arnold Rowland saw a man with a rifle.

[Alan Ford]

The reason I responded without answering is because you were asking for something I had already stated. I wasn’t going to repeat myself for you. Next time just state what your issue is. It might go smoother if you do.

~Grin~

You put forward the idea that Mr. Oswald came close to the SW window after hearing the ambulance siren. I asked you what time you believed this would have been, and you refused to answer. Then you walked back your goof by-----------dropping the siren idea!

 

[Alan Ford]

You don’t have a clue as to what my thinking was. Stop acting like you do. Arnold Rowland said he saw something that no one else did. Being skeptical would be considered normal for most folks. However, instead of dismissing his account without giving it a fair trial, I tested his description in my 3D model. I was impressed that he got so many details right. So, I think we should be open to the possibility that Arnold Rowland saw a man with a rifle.

Only because you feel you can make that conformable to the LHO-Lone-Nut theory, LOL. If you couldn't, you wouldn't dream of giving it a fair trial--------you'd just treat it like you do Mr. Rowland's disastrous (for you) 'elderly Negro' sighting, i.e. dismiss it as an "embellishment".

Speaking of which...............

Mr. ROWLAND - [T]he next day on Saturday there were a pair of FBI officers, agents out at my home, and they took another handwritten statement from me which I signed again, and this was basically the same. At that time I told them I did see the Negro man there and they told me it didn't have any bearing or such on the case right then. In fact, they just the same as told me to forget it now.

But no, he's a young man with impressive powers of recollection one minute, and an egregious liar (or hallucinating halfwit) the next. Standard Warren Gullible 'objectivity': Given that LHO acted alone, and any other possibility is crazy, let us proceed now to explore this item of evidence rigorously and impartially 

[Jack Nessan]

Spector did ask a lot of questions, and, after testing some of the answers with my 3D model, I felt Rowland got things right. That and the fact that Rowland said something to his wife at the time (before any shots were fired) and his 11/22/63 affidavit seems legit. I cannot say the same about his later embellishments regarding the elderly black man though.

Here's a view of the west windows in the 3D model from Rowland's viewpoint:



The figure is about 5' back (north) from the inside of the south wall. Please ignore the missing window in the western most opening, my model is constantly being altered and I just have it invisible at the moment. The rifle is there, at port arms, but a little hard to discern due to the dark suit of the figure. Remember that Rowland said he had on a light colored shirt, possibly a tshirt.

Interesting. I have a completely different take on Rowland and his sightings. He gives multiple answers that do not correlate to each other and gave answers and details, for no discernable reason, that were just completely wrong. Basically, Rowland and Alan Ford appear to have graduated from the same clown college.

[Charles Collins]

Only because you feel you can make that conformable to the LHO-Lone-Nut theory, LOL. If you couldn't, you wouldn't dream of giving it a fair trial--------you'd just treat it like you do Mr. Rowland's disastrous (for you) 'elderly Negro' sighting, i.e. dismiss it as an "embellishment".

Speaking of which...............

Mr. ROWLAND - [T]he next day on Saturday there were a pair of FBI officers, agents out at my home, and they took another handwritten statement from me which I signed again, and this was basically the same. At that time I told them I did see the Negro man there and they told me it didn't have any bearing or such on the case right then. In fact, they just the same as told me to forget it now.

But no, he's a young man with impressive powers of recollection one minute, and an egregious liar (or hallucinating halfwit) the next. Standard Warren Gullible 'objectivity': Given that LHO acted alone, and any other possibility is crazy, let us proceed now to explore this item of evidence rigorously and impartially 

Only because you feel you can make that conformable to the LHO-Lone-Nut theory, LOL. If you couldn't, you wouldn't dream of giving it a fair trial--------you'd just treat it like you do Mr. Rowland's disastrous (for you) 'elderly Negro' sighting, i.e. dismiss it as an "embellishment”.


If you can read, you have no comprehension abilities. I said earlier that you don’t have a clue about what I am thinking and to please stop this nonsense of acting like you do.

I have previously given reasons. And, again, will not repeat them for you.


Mr. ROWLAND - [T]he next day on Saturday there were a pair of FBI officers, agents out at my home, and they took another handwritten statement from me which I signed again, and this was basically the same. At that time I told them I did see the Negro man there and they told me it didn't have any bearing or such on the case right then. In fact, they just the same as told me to forget it now.

But no, he's a young man with impressive powers of recollection one minute, and an egregious liar (or hallucinating halfwit) the next. Standard Warren Gullible 'objectivity': Given that LHO acted alone, and any other possibility is crazy, let us proceed now to explore this item of evidence rigorously and impartially


Your claim (that it is because it doesn’t fit the official narrative) is just like all the other stuff you come up with, a figment of your imagination. There are plenty of reasons to doubt Arnold Rowland’s testimony regarding another person on the sixth floor. Here are just a few.


Mr. ROWLAND - At that time, no. However, the next day on Saturday there were a pair of FBI officers, agents out at my home, and they took another handwritten statement from me which I signed again, and this was basically the same. At that time I told them I did see the Negro man there and they told me it didn't have any bearing or such on the case right then. In fact, they just the same as told me to forget it now.
Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Reporter, will you please repeat that last answer for us?

(Answer read.)

Mr. SPECTER - I am now handing you a document which I have marked as Commission Exhibit No. 358, which purports to be a reproduction of a statement which was purportedly given by you to the FBI, two agents of that Bureau.

Will you take a look at that and tell us if that is the statement which you gave to the FBI to which you just referred?
Mr. ROWLAND - Again, I have a variance of time and a variance of distance that he was from the window.
Mr. SPECTER - Before you direct your attention to those factors, Mr. Rowland, are you able to tell us whether or not this is the statement which you gave to the FBI?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. My wife was with me when I gave the statement.
Mr. SPECTER - And without looking at the statement which, may the record show, you are not now doing, do you recollect the names of the FBI, don't look there, just tell me if you can recollect without seeing their names on the statement?
Mr. ROWLAND - No, sir; I talked to seven different pairs of FBI agents and I don't remember their names.
Mr. SPECTER - Seven different pairs?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes, sir; I had--this is only one of the statements. They came to my home or where I worked and took three more besides this one. There were four handwritten statements that I signed.
Mr. SPECTER - Before getting the details on those, tell me in what respect, if any, the statement which we have identified as Commission Exhibit No. 358 differs from what you told the FBI agents at that time?
Mr. ROWLAND - I do not think it differs.
Mr. SPECTER - Then that statement accurately reflects what you said at that time?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes; I am sure it does.



https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_358.pdf



Mrs. ROWLAND. I don't think we were contacted the next day.
Mr. BELIN. That would have been Saturday?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Saturday, I know we weren't. I am not positive.
.
.
.
Mr. BELIN. Were you present, for instance, on the Sunday morning, November 24th?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what your husband said at that time?
Mrs. ROWLAND. He repeated the statement he had made in the well, the police officers brought a written statement and asked him if that was in general what he had to say, and he said, "Yes," and they asked him specific questions about it and he answered them.
Mr. BELIN. Was there anything else that was said?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I don't believe so.
Mr. BELIN. Was there anything that your husband said that was not on that written statement?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I am not positive.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember him saying anything---do you remember him telling the police officer that the statement was correct, or do you remember him telling them anything?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes; he signed. There might have been a change or two in the statement and then he signed it and said that he verified that it was correct, to the best of his knowledge.
Mr. BELIN. Did he tell the police officer anything that was not on that statement that should be?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I don't believe so.
Mr. BELIN. Was he asked whether or not he saw any other people in any other windows?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I don't believe he was specifically asked that question.
Mr. BELIN. Did he tell any of the police officers that he saw any people in any other windows?
Mrs. ROWLAND. I am not certain.
Mr. BELIN. DO you know whether or not he told them, the police officers, that there was any other person on the sixth floor that he saw?
Mrs. ROWLAND. He never said that there was another person on the sixth floor, in my presence, that I can remember.
Mr. BELIN. Were you present when he was with the police officers?
Mrs. ROWLAND. At times.
Mr. BELIN. On Sunday morning, November 24th?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Were you personally with him throughout the time that he was
with the police officers?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And he, in your presence, never said that he saw anyone on the sixth floor other than the man with the rifle?
Mrs. ROWLAND. No. He never said in my presence that there was another man other than the man with the rifle on the sixth floor.

[Charles Collins]

Interesting. I have a completely different take on Rowland and his sightings. He gives multiple answers that do not correlate to each other and gave answers and details, for no discernable reason, that were just completely wrong. Basically, Rowland and Alan Ford appear to have graduated from the same clown college.

While I agree that there are a lot of other things Arnold Rowland said that are not true, his description of the man with the rifle seems to me to have too many details correct for it to be imagined.

[Alan Ford]

Your claim (that it is because it doesn’t fit the official narrative) is just like all the other stuff you come up with, a figment of your imagination. There are plenty of reasons to doubt Arnold Rowland’s testimony regarding another person on the sixth floor. Here are just a few.

Neither of your two gotcha quotes amounts to a hill of beans, Mr. Collins:

1. He was told the 'elderly Negro' was not important. His understanding of the point of the official statement was to get down the important facts, not to include every detail.
2. Mr. Rowland did not himself understand the significance of the 'elderly Negro'---------all the significance (he thought) attached to the man with the rifle. This fact is reflected in Mrs. Rowland's memory of their conversations.
And you forgot to underline this:
Mr. BELIN. Were you present when he was with the police officers?
Mrs. ROWLAND. At times.

Of course we all know that if the 'elderly Negro' were convenient to the official story, you'd be falling over yourself in praise of Mr. Rowland's superlative powers of recall. As things stand, you brand him a liar/fantasist on the flimsiest pretext. You're nothing more than a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose defender of the official story who is pretending to do objective research.

KUTGW!

[Alan Ford]

While I agree that there are a lot of other things Arnold Rowland said that are not true, his description of the man with the rifle seems to me to have too many details correct for it to be imagined.

'The one bit I can make conformable to the official story I will accept; the rest I will dismiss as the product of Mr. Rowland's tendency to fantasy'