Who Killed J.D. Tippit?

[Mitch Todd]

Actually I did NOT say that the killer dumped the shells in his hand.  It's my contention that the killer removed the shells ONE-AT- A- TIME and therefore he was not using a Smith & Wesson.   But I did point out that if he had dumped the shells into his (third ) hand  then the palm of that hand would have been covered with burned powder residue.  Lee Oswald had no gunpowder residue on his hand.

Let me quote you, lest you forgot:

Duh!!....When using a S&W revolver all cartridges ( both spent and unfired) are ejected at once.  If the shooter has fired four shells he simply dumps all shells into his hand, and then he can place the two live rounds back in the cylinder and replace the four spent rounds that he has discarded four with live cartridges.

That's what I was responding to when I wrote:

Try this:
While holding a revolver in one hand:
   Dump a selection of unfired and fired cartridges into your other hand
   Sort the proverbial wheat from the chaff using only the other hand (remembering that hand#1 is preoccupied with holding a pistol)
   Reload the unfired cartridges into the cylinder of the pistol
   Dump the fired, empty cases
Do all of this while on the move, and without letting go of the pistol.

Again, I was pointing out that your contention was untenable given the circumstances. I never claimed that the Tippit gunman dumped out all the cases into one hand.

What I have said, and continue to maintain, is that the S&W ejector mechanism does not prevent someone from unloading the revolver one round at a time. S&W even provided instructions on how to do this on the box the Model 10s came in:

"To Remove a Single Shell: --After having swung the cylinder open, press on the ejector rod sufficiently to start the cartridges from the chambers. The fired shell can then be drawn out by hand."

You can see those instructions in this video exactly 3 minutes in:

I've also pointed out that there are other conditions that will require that the cases be removed by hand, such as when the rim of a case slips over the edge of the extractor star, or when a case has swollen stuck in the chamber.

[Walt Cakebread]

Let me quote you, lest you forgot:

That's what I was responding to when I wrote:

Try this:
While holding a revolver in one hand:
   Dump a selection of unfired and fired cartridges into your other hand
   Sort the proverbial wheat from the chaff using only the other hand (remembering that hand#1 is preoccupied with holding a pistol)
   Reload the unfired cartridges into the cylinder of the pistol
   Dump the fired, empty cases
Do all of this while on the move, and without letting go of the pistol.

Again, I was pointing out that your contention was untenable given the circumstances. I never claimed that the Tippit gunman dumped out all the cases into one hand.

What I have said, and continue to maintain, is that the S&W ejector mechanism does not prevent someone from unloading the revolver one round at a time. S&W even provided instructions on how to do this on the box the Model 10s came in:

"To Remove a Single Shell: --After having swung the cylinder open, press on the ejector rod sufficiently to start the cartridges from the chambers. The fired shell can then be drawn out by hand."

You can see those instructions in this video exactly 3 minutes in:

I've also pointed out that there are other conditions that will require that the cases be removed by hand, such as when the rim of a case slips over the edge of the extractor star, or when a case has swollen stuck in the chamber.

Wonderful!!    So is the above action the action that was described by the witnesses??    I don't believe it is....I believe they were describing the action of emptying the shells ONE AT A TIME and tossing the shells away as he walked away.

[Zeon Mason]

If the extractor thingy wasn’t working too well, something similar to the firing pin of this revolver  being rusty, would the shells be difficult to shake out?

Presuming the shells probably are not so hot that they could be held all together in the palm of the hand without discomfort or burning the hand, and the Extractor wasn’t working and the shells were stuck and weren’t falling out , then the only thing left to do would be to remove each shell one at a time.

However, it still seems a bit odd to throw the shells on the ground while in view of the witnesses , when the shells could have been placed in the pocket temporarily until the shooter left the scene, thus not leaving incriminating evidence at the scene.

Could they determine the exact type of round just from the  lead projectile fragments found in Tippet, without having found the shells?

[Walt Cakebread]

If the extractor thingy wasn’t working too well, something similar to the firing pin of this revolver  being rusty, would the shells be difficult to shake out?

Presuming the shells probably are not so hot that they could be held all together in the palm of the hand without discomfort or burning the hand, and the Extractor wasn’t working and the shells were stuck and weren’t falling out , then the only thing left to do would be to remove each shell one at a time.

However, it still seems a bit odd to throw the shells on the ground while in view of the witnesses , when the shells could have been placed in the pocket temporarily until the shooter left the scene, thus not leaving incriminating evidence at the scene.

Could they determine the exact type of round just from the  lead projectile fragments found in Tippet, without having found the shells?

I believe all of your questions about the emptying the spent shells from "Oswald's " gun were answered by the FBI man who testified before LBJ's " Special Select Blue Ribbon Committee "  ie "The Warren Commission".

That FBI man knew that "Oswald's gun" was NOT the murder weapon.

[Andrew Mason]

If the extractor thingy wasn’t working too well, something similar to the firing pin of this revolver  being rusty, would the shells be difficult to shake out?

Presuming the shells probably are not so hot that they could be held all together in the palm of the hand without discomfort or burning the hand, and the Extractor wasn’t working and the shells were stuck and weren’t falling out , then the only thing left to do would be to remove each shell one at a time.

However, it still seems a bit odd to throw the shells on the ground while in view of the witnesses , when the shells could have been placed in the pocket temporarily until the shooter left the scene, thus not leaving incriminating evidence at the scene.

Could they determine the exact type of round just from the  lead projectile fragments found in Tippet, without having found the shells?

Oswald was not planning on being caught. The shells are evidence only if they have his gun.

Oswald has a bit of a history of not really thinking about those kind of things.  Just like giving up his US citizenship to move to Russia.  Or burying his rifle at the scene of the Walker shooting - a simple canine search would have found it.  Or leaving his rifle in the TSBD - maybe thinking that it could not possibly be traced to him since he used an alias Alec J. Hidell.....

[Mitch Todd]

Wonderful!!    So is the above action the action that was described by the witnesses??    I don't believe it is....I believe they were describing the action of emptying the shells ONE AT A TIME and tossing the shells away as he walked away.

The point is that you can unload an S&W revolver one case at a time. In some circumstances, like a stuck case or a case whose rim has slipped over the ejector star, you have to.

[Mitch Todd]

If the extractor thingy wasn’t working too well, something similar to the firing pin of this revolver  being rusty, would the shells be difficult to shake out?

Presuming the shells probably are not so hot that they could be held all together in the palm of the hand without discomfort or burning the hand, and the Extractor wasn’t working and the shells were stuck and weren’t falling out , then the only thing left to do would be to remove each shell one at a time.

However, it still seems a bit odd to throw the shells on the ground while in view of the witnesses , when the shells could have been placed in the pocket temporarily until the shooter left the scene, thus not leaving incriminating evidence at the scene.

Could they determine the exact type of round just from the  lead projectile fragments found in Tippet, without having found the shells?

FWIR, they can usually identify the diameter of the bullet to within a few thousandths of an inch, if it's intact around its circumference. They might also be able to get the number of grooves, grove direction, and rifling rate. That can tell you a lot about what weapon fired the bullet, though it can't tell you what individual gun it was.

[Mitch Todd]

I believe all of your questions about the emptying the spent shells from "Oswald's " gun were answered by the FBI man who testified before LBJ's " Special Select Blue Ribbon Committee "  ie "The Warren Commission".

That FBI man knew that "Oswald's gun" was NOT the murder weapon.

Having exhausted all other lines of argument to no avail, Walt develops clairvoyance and reads the minds of dead men.