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Author Topic: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!  (Read 8189 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2023, 01:37:18 PM »
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Markham describes the man walking east with the police car cruising slowly behind him. The car pulls over and the man moves towards the car, now facing west. This seems to be when Scoggins first becomes aware of him. Benevides arrives on the scene just as Tippit is shot.

Scoggins said he was going west, or at least facing west. William Lawrence Smith saw him walking west on 10th toward Patton. So did Jimmy Burt.

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2023, 01:37:18 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2023, 06:12:27 PM »
Scoggins said he was going west, or at least facing west. William Lawrence Smith saw him walking west on 10th toward Patton. So did Jimmy Burt.

Only two witnesses saw the shooter pulled over by Tippit - Markham and Tatum.
Both say he was walking east on 10th, they saw the police car pull over and the man stop, turn, now facing west, and approach the passenger side window of the police car.

William Lawrence Smith saw a man he was sure was Oswald walking east on 10th but never saw the interaction with Tippit.

Jimmy Burt saw a man walking west on 10th but couldn't identify him as Oswald. Burt was chatting to his friend (also called William Smith!) and saw the car pull up and a man go over to the passenger window. Burt is convinced it was the same man he saw walking down the street but stated that he had not visually followed this man down the street to the point where he approached the police car.
He also notes that Tippit rolled the passenger window down and the man lean into the window.

Burt's friend, William Arthur Smith, did not see the man walking west on 10th and didn't see the police car pulling up. He heard the shots then looked over to see Tippit fall and the shooter run off.


Markham is often lambasted as a witness but her account of the man walking east on 10th and being pulled over by Tippit is confirmed by other accounts. Tatum also sees the man walking east on 10th and the police car pulling over.
Markham recalls the man turning and approaching the passenger window and leaning in. This is also confirmed by Tatum and Jimmy Burr.
After the shooting Markham states that the shooter begin moving west down 10th, then slowing down to look at her. Benevides also recalls the shooter moving west and pausing briefly before heading south, down Patton.

William Smith simply recalls someone who he thought looked like Oswald walking west down 10th, he didn't see this man interacting with Tippit.
Jimmy Burr saw a man walking west on 10th but could not identify him as Oswald. He was chatting to his wife and his friend and when he looked over again he saw the police car pull up and a man approach it. He is convinced it was the same man but it is no more than an assumption.

The stronger witness evidence must be viewed as that of Markham and Tatum, Both have the shooter walking east on 10th.
This supports the proposed solution to Oswald's route put forward in Reply#17
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 10:30:06 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2023, 06:19:22 PM »
Someone leaving the rooming house around 1:00pm trying to make the transfer point at "A" by 1:15pm could have been in the right place at the right time for the Tippit murder.

That depends when Tippit was actually killed.

Of course.
And the exact time Oswald left the rooming house (if we assume he is the shooter).
If Oswald was  the shooter why would he be walking east up 10th?
In order for him to be at this location around the time of the shooting he must have hurried from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. Why would he be in a hurry?
The bus transfer ticket provides potential solutions for these questions.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 10:30:57 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2023, 06:19:22 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2023, 06:58:16 PM »
Of course.
And the exact time Oswald left the rooming house (if we assume he is the shooter).
If Oswald was on the shooter why would he be walking east up 10th?
In order for him to be at this location around the time of the shooting he must have hurried from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. Why would he be in a hurry?
The bus transfer ticket provides potential solutions for these questions.

he must have hurried from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. Why would he be in a hurry?

I have often wondered exactly that...

The bus transfer ticket provides potential solutions for these questions.

In theory, sure. In practice, I'm not so sure. If Oswald wanted to get to point A, he could have taken another route that seems more logical.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2023, 07:44:26 PM »
There’s no reason whatsoever to consider Tatum a “stronger” witness — or indeed to even believe he was there that day. Nobody else at the scene made any mention of him.

But if Burt and Smith saw a man walking west right before the shooting then who else could it be other than the man witnesses saw leave the Tippit scene down Patton?

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2023, 07:44:26 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2023, 07:48:35 PM »
Of course.
And the exact time Oswald left the rooming house (if we assume he is the shooter).
If Oswald was on the shooter why would he be walking east up 10th?
In order for him to be at this location around the time of the shooting he must have hurried from the rooming house to 10th and Patton. Why would he be in a hurry?
The bus transfer ticket provides potential solutions for these questions.

But then that raises the question, if Oswald was so determined to use a bus transfer, why would he pay for a cab at all and then take the time to have a cab drop him off in a place that would require him to have to hurry so much in order to use it? Speculation can take you anywhere.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2023, 07:57:38 PM »
I was under the impression that the bus transfer was only valid for 15 minutes from the moment of it being issued. If that is correct, the transfer would have expired by the time Oswald got to the roominghouse.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2023, 09:22:20 PM »
David Belin, in his book: “November 22, 1963: You Are The Jury” writes that his theory is pure conjecture. Then goes on to explain, after explaining some of his research, how it could possibly be correct. On page 427, regarding the bus transfer, he writes:

  I was also correct in my hypothesis that a city transit company bus could be boarded at the intersection of Marsalis and Jefferson Streets near the scene of the Tippit murder, which went along Lancaster Road past the Lisbon flag stop. Finally, I was correct that the transfer would be valid for that bus. The rules of the bus line provided that the transfer was ordinarily valid for 15 minutes. However, the Lancaster Road bus route at that time had buses scheduled only every hour. If the bus for which the transfer was being used was scheduled an hour later, the transfer would be good for that bus, regardless of the time that had transpired after leaving the bus from which the transfer was obtained. In other words, the Marsalis bus line driver gave Oswald a transfer cut at 1:00 pm. However, the next bus at Lancaster Road would not have arrived at the transfer point until after 1:30. Accordingly, the transfer that Oswald had in his pocket was good for the Lancaster bus route.

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Re: Sorry CT's, the Mountain of Evidence is Overwhelming!
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2023, 09:22:20 PM »