Is the amount of effort to link Oswald to Hidell believable?

[Rick Plant]

Researcher Greg Parker has an interesting theory and that is that Oswald had no knowledge of the upcoming murder. In other words he was completely innocent and the reason why he was murdered was not to shut him up about what he knew about the plot, but just to shut him up. I've thought about this and I agree with this now.

What are your thoughts on Jack Ruby?   

[John Iacoletti]

And even after I posted a stack of examples which all required mass fakery, letter perfect forgery, planting evidence in non connected locations and a multitude of lies, you still nonsensically ask "you still cannot demonstrate that Oswald ever used Hidell as an alias for himself", geez John, you're absolutely wedded to the concept of conspiracy yet like Martin you claim you aren't one.

And therein lies your fatal flaw. None of your false dichotomies “require” anything of the kind. You can either prove your claims or you cannot. And you cannot.

[John Iacoletti]

I think that's kinda right, Oswald had no knowledge of the upcoming murder right up until the 19th when the parade route was put on the front page of the Dallas Times Herald, and only then did Oswald start thinking about his plan and even up until the night before, I believe there was still a chance that he could pull out, but after being rejected by Marina and, well, the rest is history.

Cool fantasy story, bro.

[John Mytton]

And therein lies your fatal flaw. None of your false dichotomies “require” anything of the kind. You can either prove your claims or you cannot. And you cannot.

You can either prove your claims

Prove to who? YOU? You can't be serious!

In the past, I have naively asked, "beyond the literal mountain of evidence that already exists that links Oswald to the rifle order what more evidence should be presented to prove Oswald purchased and possessed the rifle and I was told, when the evidence is presented they will let me know. I should have known better than to ask an unreasonable CT for a reasonable answer.

JohnM

[Richard Smith]

As I have been saying for some time, only Oswald would order his rifle through an alias because setting up Oswald through his real name is far far easier and much more logical, because why on Earth invent an extra step which leads away from your Patsy?

Way back in March63 when Oswald ordered and was photographed with his rifle, Oswald was planning on using the rifle to assassinate General Walker a month later.
In the weeks between his purchase and the attempt, Oswald took surveillance photos of the side of the Walker residence where the attempt took place, a photo of a fence where Oswald was going to steady his rifle, had a map where X marks the spot, and besides the attempt itself Oswald told Marina specific details like the night of church gatherings. Oswald thought of himself as some sort of clandestine spy on a mission, yet still Oswald was clearly thinking this through up to the point where he pulled the trigger, and he even wrote a note for Marina where he guides her through the immediate aftermath and he says "If I am alive and captured..." indicating that he expected a shoot out with the Cops, similarly in the Texas Theatre Oswald put this "suicide by cop" into action when he pulled the trigger of his revolver.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to show you dear reader that the amount of effort and planning to link the alias Hidell with the person Oswald was an effort of enormous magnitude and required forgery, planting evidence in obscure places and a stack of lies. This sequence of inconceivable events I doubt would even be contemplated by a fiction author like Ian Fleming or Robert Ludlum, because of the absurd unbelievability, yet almost 60 years later the mind of an ever increasingly desperate conspiracy theorist who believes anything and I mean anything is possible, just take it all in their stride. -sigh-
 

It was either Oswald or;

The Hidell ID was manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID was planted by the Police
The Hidell ID negatives were manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID negatives were planted by conspirators in the Paine residence
The Hidell name was inserted by conspirators into the New Orleans post box application records.
The Hidell name was connected To Oswald's New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was used as The "Chapter President" of Oswald's made up Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was forged by conspirators onto Oswald's "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
The Hidell name was written on membership cards by conspirators other than Marina, who must have lied.
The Hidell name was a play on "Fidel" according to Marina who must have lied
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kliens coupon
The Hidell Kleins coupon addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kliens microfilm
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kleins envelope
The Hidell Kleins Envelope addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kleins microfilm
The Hidell name on on the Kleins Coupon found by Waldman on the night following the assassination was forgotten?
The Hidell rifle was never sent to Oswald's PO box
The Hidell newly manufactured microfilm was substituted at some point with Kleins business records microfilm.
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or Police lied
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or a Postal official lied
The Hidell ID was asked of Oswald or an FBI agent lied
The Hidell name was forged onto Oswald Job applications as a reference
The Hidell rifle was photographed with Oswald by either forgery or trickery
The Hidell rifle was planted on the 6th floor of Oswald's work by conspirators
The Hidell revolver coupon was forged by conspirators
The Hidell name was forged onto the Seaport-Traders paperwork
The Hidell revolver was lied about by the Police
The Hidell revolver was substituted by Police
And on and on it goes!

Looking at this mountain of evidence that links Hidell with Oswald and I ask even the most sceptical to consider that each step needs to be either planned, forged, planted and then lied about, and then take the time to contemplate if this mass co-ordination of deception is even possible in our Real World?

I rest my case!

JohnM

Great post.  And why go through all this as part of any plan to frame Oswald?  Why not just use his real name on all the documents linking him to the guns?  It would have served the same purpose from the conspirator's perspective to link Oswald to specific weapons.  There is no need to manufacturer an alias to accomplish that purpose.  In contrast, if Oswald ordered these guns in contemplation of using them for a crime (as we know he did), he had every incentive to use an alias as a means to muddy the connection.  The contrarians stupidly equate these two very different situations as though they are the same.  As a part of a plan to frame Oswald via establishing a connection to the name used to order the weapons, an alias is unnecessary, risky and complicated.  As part of Oswald's own effort to conceal his connection to the guns, it useful, not risky and easy to accomplish.  Was it perfect?  No.  In part because Oswald stupidly kept the Hidell ID and he had to have a way to obtain the guns when they were shipped to him.  So he had to use an address that was associated with himself.  But he had nothing to lose by using an alias.   Contrarians can't accept the logic of the obvious when it comes to any situation that lends itself to Oswald's guilt.

[John Iacoletti]

Prove to who? YOU? You can't be serious!

Prove to anybody

In the past, I have naively asked, "beyond the literal mountain of evidence that already exists that links Oswald to the rifle order what more evidence should be presented to prove Oswald purchased and possessed the rifle and I was told, when the evidence is presented they will let me know. I should have known better than to ask an unreasonable CT for a reasonable answer.

“Mountain”. LOL.

What exactly “links Oswald” personally to that rifle order?

- unscientific and biased handwriting analysis of two block-written letters on a photo of a microfilm copy of a 2-inch order coupon for a similar but not identical rifle. From microfilm that is now “missing”.

. . .

And that’s it, other than your penchant for storytelling and wishful thinking.

[John Iacoletti]

Great post.  And why go through all this as part of any plan to frame Oswald?  Why not just use his real name on all the documents linking him to the guns?  It would have served the same purpose from the conspirator's perspective to link Oswald to specific weapons.  There is no need to manufacturer an alias to accomplish that purpose.

The usual “conspirators I just made up in my head would never do that, therefore there was no conspiracy, therefore Oswald did it” argument that “Richard” is so fond of.

In contrast, if Oswald ordered these guns in contemplation of using them for a crime (as we know he did), he had every incentive to use an alias as a means to muddy the connection.

We don’t “know” anything of the kind.

The contrarians stupidly equate these two very different situations as though they are the same.  As a part of a plan to frame Oswald via establishing a connection to the name used to order the weapons, an alias is unnecessary, risky and complicated.  As part of Oswald's own effort to conceal his connection to the guns, it useful, not risky and easy to accomplish.  Was it perfect?  No.  In part because Oswald stupidly kept the Hidell ID and he had to have a way to obtain the guns when they were shipped to him.  So he had to use an address that was associated with himself.  But he had nothing to lose by using an alias.   Contrarians can't accept the logic of the obvious when it comes to any situation that lends itself to Oswald's guilt.

Cool story, bro. Unfortunately, your vivid imagination doesn’t constitute “logic of the obvious”.

[Charles Collins]

From “Assignment Oswald” by James Hosty, page 106:

Suddenly, DeBrueys exclaimed, “Thank God!” I walked over to his side of the desk and looked over his shoulder at the document he was reading. It was a letter that Lee Oswald had written to the national office for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York City. In the letter, Oswald acknowledged that he was the only member of the New Orleans branch of this committee, and that he used A. J. Hidell as one of his aliases. DeBrueys said that he had only deduced, not definitively concluded, that Oswald was the only member of the committee in New Orleans and used Hidell as an alias. This letter, in Oswald’s own handwriting, completely validated DeBrueys’s deductions. He was visibly relieved, because he knew that the rifle trace had largely depended on his deductions.

Is this letter from LHO to the FPCC in the record for us to see?