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Author Topic: The Walker Case  (Read 26923 times)

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2023, 04:35:00 AM »
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Hi Zeon, I think that Oswald's(Hidell) main motivation was his wanting to be accepted as a Marxist and any political leader that spoke ill of Fidel Castro was put on Oswald's hit list, CT's claim that the left Kennedy and the extreme right Walker had no connection but I believe that in Oswald's eyes, what connected Kennedy and Walker was their dislike of the Cuban regime.

Fritz was the one of the last people to spend considerable time with Oswald.

Mr. DULLES. Have you any views of your own as to motive from your talks with him? Did you get any clues as to possible motive in assassinating the President?
Mr. FRITZ. I can only tell you what little I know now. I am sure that we have people in Washington here that can tell far more than I can.
Mr. DULLES. Well, you saw the man and the others didn't see the man.
Mr. FRITZ. I got the impression, I got the impression that he was doing it because of his feeling about the Castro revolution, and I think that he felt, he had a lot of feeling about that revolution.
(At this point the Chief Justice entered the hearing room.)

Mr. FRITZ. I think that was the reason. I noticed another thing. I noticed a little before when Walker was shot, he had come out with some statements about Castro and about Cuba and a lot of things and if you will remember the President had some stories a few weeks before his death about Cuba and about Castro and some things, and I wondered if that didn't have some bearing. I have no way of knowing that other than just watching him and talking to him. I think it was his feeling about his belief in being a Marxist, I think he had--he told me he had debated in New Orleans, and that he tried to get converts to this Fair Play for Cuba organization, so I think that was his motive. I think he was doing it because of that.


Oswald in New Orleans handing out "Hands off Cuba" leaflets





Oswald's "Fair play for Cuba" membership card where he was also the Chapter President.



Three days before Oswald killed Kennedy, there was this newspaper article in the Dallas Times Herald of Kennedy saying that it would be a happy day if the Castro government was ousted.



Oswald's personal possessions had a number of positive Castro literature.



A week after the Dallas Herald Times reported that Walker wanted to  "liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba" Oswald ordered his rifle and not long after Oswald took surveillance photos of General Walkers house and a little later Oswald tried to kill General Walker.

In February 1963, Walker joined Billy Hargis on an anti-communist tour named "Operation Midnight Ride".[24] In a speech Walker made on March 5, reported in the Dallas Times Herald, he called on the United States military to "liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba."[25] Seven days later, Lee Harvey Oswald ordered a Carcano rifle by mail, using the alias "A. Hidell".[26]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker



Just my 2 cents, but do the Math!

JohnM

Walker was more famous (or infamous) in 1963 for being a pro-Segregation activist.

Oswald no doubt was aware of the riot that General Walker incited at Ole Miss.

In contrast, LHO, opposed segregation. Civil Rights was one of the issues where Lee was said to have agreed with Kennedy politically. At the School Book Depository, he was known to eat his lunch in the break room used by Black and Latino employees, not the other break room that most of the White employees used. His own subtle protest against the segregation of Dallas in 1963.

So if Oswald did attempt to kill Walker, it’s probable that it had more to do with Civil Rights than Walker’s views of Cuba/Castro.

Oswald clearly had a motive for targeting Walker and an interest in Walker according to George DeMorenschildt. There’s just a lack of direct evidence connecting Oswald to the Walker shooting…
« Last Edit: July 05, 2023, 12:55:26 PM by Jon Banks »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2023, 06:18:25 AM »
Walker was more famous (or infamous) in 1963 for being a pro-Segregation activist.

Oswald no doubt was aware of the riot that General Walker incited at Ole Miss.

In contrast, LHO, opposed segregation. Civil Rights was one of the issues where Lee was said to have agreed with Kennedy politically. At the School Book Depository, he was known to eat his lunch in the break room used by Black and Latino employees, not the other break that most of the White employees used. His own subtle protest against the segregation of Dallas in 1963.

So if Oswald did attempt to kill Walker, it’s probable that it had more to do with Civil Rights than Walker’s views of Cuba/Castro.

Oswald clearly had a motive for targeting Walker and an interest in Walker according to George DeMorenschildt. There’s just a lack of direct evidence connecting Oswald to the Walker shooting…

Hi Jon, I still stand by my observation and I didn't even mention Oswald's failed attempt to get through to Cuba by way of Mexico but thanks for the additional insight and I concede that not every issue is black and white and the shade of grey that you mentioned is a worthwhile contribution.

Btw do you have any examples where Oswald tried to befriend any Black or Latino employees? and I thought that the Domino room which I assume you were talking about was generally for the warehouse staff and the upper 2nd floor lunchroom which was occasionally frequented by some warehouse staff but was primarily for the office staff?

JohnM

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2023, 06:18:25 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2023, 09:36:30 AM »
Must be a different motive for Oswald shooting  at JFK vs shooting at Walker.

Because JFK demonstrated disdain for Walker by forcing Walker to resign and having him committed to an insane asylum.

Not only that , but JFK demonstrated by choosing a black SS agent that JFK was not a segregationist , exactly the opposite of General Walker.

And JFK demonstrated rather clearly a “hands off” policy towards Castro/Cuba ( post 62 missile  crisis resolution).and further publicly stated willingness to be cooperative with the USSR in  space exploration.

Surely Oswald who read papers and was informed of the political situation, must have been pleased with a POTUS demonstrating basically the same perspective that Oswald had himself ?

So the motive (if there is one) for Oswald to shoot at JFK cannot be because Oswald perceived JFK to be the same “fascist” threat that Oswald perceived Walker to be.

Zeon,

Oswald's motive for shooting at General Walker was the same as he had for assassinating the President.  Marxism and Cuba.  Oswald wanted the United States Government to keep it's hands off of Cuba.

Oswald told Capt. Will Fritz that he was a Marxist, that he belonged to the Fair Play For Cuba organization and that he was in favor of Fidel Castro's revolution.

Before the revolution, Castro, with his Marxist beliefs, condemned social and economic inequality in Cuba.  He adopted the Marxist view that meaningful political change could only be brought about by proletariat revolution.

While Castro was imprisoned for the failed attack on the Moncada Barracks in Cuba, his wife took employment with the Ministry of the Interior.  Castro was enraged and insulted.  His Marxist beliefs were so strong that filed for divorce.  Mirta (Castro's wife) took custody of their son Fidelito.  The thought of his son growing up in a bourgeois environment further enraged Castro.

Oswald agreed strongly with the Marxist beliefs of Castro.

During the revolution, the U.S. Government feared that Castro was a socialist.

In early January of 1959, Batista was overthrown by the rebels and he fled.

The revolution was a crucial turning point in relations between the U.S. and Cuba.  Originally, the U.S. government was willing to recognize Castro's new government.  However, the U.S. government would eventually fear that Communist insurgencies would spread through Latin America, as they had in Southeast Asia.

On March 5, 1963, Major General Edwin Walker gave a speech where he called on the White House to "liquidate the (communist) scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba."  Walker was obviously referring to Fidel Castro.   Oswald ordered his rifle seven days later.

Captain Fritz told the Warren Commission:

"I got the impression that he was doing it because of his feeling about the Castro revolution, and I think that he felt, he had a lot of feeling about that revolution.

I think that was the reason. I noticed another thing. I noticed a little before when Walker was shot, he had come out with some statements about Castro and about Cuba and a lot of things and if you will remember the President had some stories a few weeks before his death about Cuba and about Castro and some things, and I wondered if that didn't have some bearing.

I have no way of knowing that other than just watching him and talking to him. I think it was his feeling about his belief in being a Marxist, he told me he had debated in New Orleans, and that he tried to get converts to this Fair Play for Cuba organization, so I think that was his motive. I think he was doing it because of that."


The image below is from the
Wichita Falls Record News
March 7, 1963
(Image courtesy of Dale Myers)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2023, 09:37:22 AM by Bill Brown »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2023, 09:46:42 AM »
Zeon,

Oswald's motive for shooting at General Walker was the same as he had for assassinating the President.  Marxism and Cuba.  Oswald wanted the United States Government to keep it's hands off of Cuba.

Oswald told Capt. Will Fritz that he was a Marxist, that he belonged to the Fair Play For Cuba organization and that he was in favor of Fidel Castro's revolution.

Before the revolution, Castro, with his Marxist beliefs, condemned social and economic inequality in Cuba.  He adopted the Marxist view that meaningful political change could only be brought about by proletariat revolution.

While Castro was imprisoned for the failed attack on the Moncada Barracks in Cuba, his wife took employment with the Ministry of the Interior.  Castro was enraged and insulted.  His Marxist beliefs were so strong that filed for divorce.  Mirta (Castro's wife) took custody of their son Fidelito.  The thought of his son growing up in a bourgeois environment further enraged Castro.

Oswald agreed strongly with the Marxist beliefs of Castro.

During the revolution, the U.S. Government feared that Castro was a socialist.

In early January of 1959, Batista was overthrown by the rebels and he fled.

The revolution was a crucial turning point in relations between the U.S. and Cuba.  Originally, the U.S. government was willing to recognize Castro's new government.  However, the U.S. government would eventually fear that Communist insurgencies would spread through Latin America, as they had in Southeast Asia.

On March 5, 1963, Major General Edwin Walker gave a speech where he called on the White House to "liquidate the (communist) scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba."  Walker was obviously referring to Fidel Castro.   Oswald ordered his rifle seven days later.

Captain Fritz told the Warren Commission:

"I got the impression that he was doing it because of his feeling about the Castro revolution, and I think that he felt, he had a lot of feeling about that revolution.

I think that was the reason. I noticed another thing. I noticed a little before when Walker was shot, he had come out with some statements about Castro and about Cuba and a lot of things and if you will remember the President had some stories a few weeks before his death about Cuba and about Castro and some things, and I wondered if that didn't have some bearing.

I have no way of knowing that other than just watching him and talking to him. I think it was his feeling about his belief in being a Marxist, he told me he had debated in New Orleans, and that he tried to get converts to this Fair Play for Cuba organization, so I think that was his motive. I think he was doing it because of that."


The image below is from the
Wichita Falls Record News
March 7, 1963
(Image courtesy of Dale Myers)


 Thumb1: Thumb1: Thumb1:

JohnM

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2023, 09:46:42 AM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2023, 01:10:03 PM »
Hi Jon, I still stand by my observation and I didn't even mention Oswald's failed attempt to get through to Cuba by way of Mexico but thanks for the additional insight and I concede that not every issue is black and white and the shade of grey that you mentioned is a worthwhile contribution.

Btw do you have any examples where Oswald tried to befriend any Black or Latino employees?
and I thought that the Domino room which I assume you were talking about was generally for the warehouse staff and the upper 2nd floor lunchroom which was occasionally frequented by some warehouse staff but was primarily for the office staff?

JohnM

I don't know of any examples where LHO tried to befriend any non-White employees at TSBD.

But we can conclude based on his own writings on the issue of segregation that he strongly opposed it. The quote below is from a speech Oswald wrote in 1963:

"as I look at this audience, there is a sea of white faces before me where are the negro’s amongst you (are they hiding under the table) surly if we are for democracy, let our fellow negro citizen’s into this hall. Make no mistake, I am segregationist tendencies can be unleared. I was born in New Orleans, and I know.

In russia I saw on several occiasions that in international meeting the greatest glory in the sport field was brought to us by negroes. Though they take the gold metals from their Russian competitors those negroes know that when they return to their own homeland they will have to face blind hatred and discrimonation. The Soviet Union is made up of scores of naturiclists asians and Eurpr–asian’s armenian and Jews whites and dark skinned people’s yet they can teach us a lesson in brotherhood among people’s with different customs and origins."


http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-oswald-speech-in-alabama


Beyond that, what we know about his views of segregation in the South comes primarily from second-hand accounts of him crediting JFK for his Civil Rights policies and George DeMorenschildt's description of Oswald's views on domestic politics.

Given Gen. Walker's infamy for his role in the 1962 riot at Ole Miss, it's very plausible that LHO disliked him for his support for segregation more than his anti-communism:

"In 1961, President John F. Kennedy officially admonished Walker for trying to indoctrinate his troops with right-wing literature. Walker resigned in protest, resurfacing the following year as one of the leaders of an armed mob trying to prevent black student James Meredith from entering the University of Mississippi. The mob wounded 160 federal marshals and killed two people. Attorney General Robert Kennedy charged Walker with seditious conspiracy, insurrection and rebellion, and put him in jail for five days before finally sending him for psychiatric evaluation."


https://www.ualrpublicradio.org/2017-10-05/maj-gen-edwin-walker-and-james-meredith
« Last Edit: July 05, 2023, 01:11:39 PM by Jon Banks »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2023, 04:49:09 PM »
Where did I say "precise date"?

But I can see how you misinterpreted my loosely structured statement.

Then your “loosely structured statement” is meaningless, given that you cannot determine whether the photo was taken close to the Walker shooting or not.

Quote
At the end of the day, whoever was planning to use the Neeley street background as a template for the "fake" backyard photos had to have a plan in place many months in advance.

Who claimed that anybody planned to use the Neeley street background as a template for fake backyard photos?

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2023, 04:49:09 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2023, 04:51:02 PM »
If you can't answer my question just say so.

If nobody knows how C2766 got in the TSBD, does that somehow prove that Oswald brought it there? Or do you need some actual evidence to make that claim?

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2023, 04:58:43 PM »
The question is an invalid one and requires no answer until you show conclusively that C2766 was actually sent to Oswald's PO box.

“Mytton” loves loaded questions.

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2023, 04:58:43 PM »