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Author Topic: The Walker Case  (Read 29631 times)

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #224 on: July 12, 2023, 04:14:53 PM »
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Btw, where would somebody go to make a statement on the record about what is written in a FBI report that's locked away for many years in the National Archives?

CE 2011 was published for the public shortly after the release of the Warren Report in 1964 (volume XXIV, page 411). It was not locked away in the national archives for “many years”.

All WC files were declared secret and locked away for 75 years at the National Archives. That includes the originals of all pieces of evidence.

The WC volumes only show reproductions.


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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #224 on: July 12, 2023, 04:14:53 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #225 on: July 12, 2023, 04:35:30 PM »
The researcher hasn’t been identified in this thread.

So what? If you knew who he was you wouldn't have asked....

Anyway, the researcher was Gary Aquilar and he talked to Odum on September 12, 2002

Perhaps this helps you understand (although I doubt it);

https://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/images/Slide11.GIF

https://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/images/Aguilar-Tilley_3-7-2005.pdf


I don’t have any problem understanding. I just asked for some details that I consider important.

However, it does appear that in 2002, Odum was having trouble understand anything that Aguilar said. Are there more pages to the telephone conversation transcript that you can show us?

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #226 on: July 12, 2023, 04:57:08 PM »

I don’t have any problem understanding. I just asked for some details that I consider important.

However, it does appear that in 2002, Odum was having trouble understand anything that Aguilar said. Are there more pages to the telephone conversation transcript that you can show us?

How does it appear that Odum was having trouble understand what Aguilar said?

He clearly states that he never went to Parkland and never showed any bullet to anybody. There is no misunderstanding whatsoever, but I can understand why you would want to create one.

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #226 on: July 12, 2023, 04:57:08 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #227 on: July 12, 2023, 05:09:45 PM »
Let's back this up a bit;

I asked you; 

What makes you think that Odum even knew about what some unknown FBI employee wrote in a report?

In two posts you stated that in your opinion it is reasonable that Odum agreed with the report and must have read the report.

If Odum actually did go on record regarding an incorrect item, but Odum didn’t go on record with a need to make any corrections to what the official FBI report said about the Walker bullet identification, then I think it stands to reason that Odum must have agreed with the report regarding the Walker bullet. YMMV


John’s claim states that Odum said part of the report was incorrect. It is reasonable to believe that if this is true that Odum must have actually read the report. If you can show that Odum didn’t read the report then you might have a point.

Now, leaving your biased opinion aside for a moment, what do you have to show that Odum did in fact read the report before it was submitted to the WC?

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #228 on: July 12, 2023, 05:21:11 PM »
How does it appear that Odum was having trouble understand what Aguilar said?

He clearly states that he never went to Parkland and never showed any bullet to anybody. There is no misunderstanding whatsoever, but I can understand why you would want to create one.

I would like to see the entire conversation before commenting further. The most glaring item so far appears to be Aguilar’s admission that he failed to send Odum the FBI report in question (CE2011). Odum was a senior agent in 1963 per Hosty in his book “Assignment Oswald”. 2002 is almost 40-years after the time frame in question. How was Odum to know what the heck Aguilar was talking about? I suspect Odum probably thought Aguilar was asking about events on 11/22/63 (not June of 1964). After all, Odum asked if Aguilar was one of the doctors.

CE2011 is the FBI’s official response to a letter from a presidential commission to the head of the FBI (JEH). Therefore it is reasonable to believe that CE2011 would be accurate. After all, most people working for the FBI wanted to keep their jobs, so the last thing they would want is the wrath of JEH, etc for getting something wrong. On the other hand, it appears that you and John put your faith in a portion of a unauthenticated,  unplanned, and unprepared for (by Odum at least) telephone conversation between an apparently inept “researcher” and an old man about details from almost 40-years earlier.  ::)

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #228 on: July 12, 2023, 05:21:11 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #229 on: July 12, 2023, 05:23:04 PM »
All WC files were declared secret and locked away for 75 years at the National Archives. That includes the originals of all pieces of evidence.

The WC volumes only show reproductions.

WTF is the problem. Are you suggesting they were faked or planted. If so, where is the evidence for this?

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #230 on: July 12, 2023, 05:26:39 PM »
Let's back this up a bit;

I asked you; 

What makes you think that Odum even knew about what some unknown FBI employee wrote in a report?

In two posts you stated that in your opinion it is reasonable that Odum agreed with the report and must have read the report.

Now, leaving your biased opinion aside for a moment, what do you have to show that Odum did in fact read the report before it was submitted to the WC?

My statement includes the qualification: “I think that”. It also includes YMMV which stands for your mileage may vary. This means that you may have a different opinion.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #231 on: July 12, 2023, 05:59:24 PM »
I would like to see the entire conversation before commenting further. The most glaring item so far appears to be Aguilar’s admission that he failed to send Odum the FBI report in question (CE2011). Odum was a senior agent in 1963 per Hosty in his book “Assignment Oswald”. 2002 is almost 40-years after the time frame in question. How was Odum to know what the heck Aguilar was talking about? I suspect Odum probably thought Aguilar was asking about events on 11/22/63 (not June of 1964). After all, Odum asked if Aguilar was one of the doctors.

CE2011 is the FBI’s official response to a letter from a presidential commission to the head of the FBI (JEH). Therefore it is reasonable to believe that CE2011 would be accurate. After all, most people working for the FBI wanted to keep their jobs, so the last thing they would want is the wrath of JEH, etc for getting something wrong. On the other hand, it appears that you and John put your faith in a portion of a unauthenticated,  unplanned, and unprepared for (by Odum at least) telephone conversation between an apparently inept “researcher” and an old man about details from almost 40-years earlier.  ::)

The most glaring item so far appears to be Aguilar’s admission that he failed to send Odum the FBI report in question (CE2011).
 
Which has nothing to do with your biased claim about Odum somehow having trouble understand anything that Aguilar said.

EDIT: Aguilar did in fact send CE2011 and Shanklin's Airtel to Odum

2002 is almost 40-years after the time frame in question. How was Odum to know what the heck Aguilar was talking about?

40 years is indeed a long time, but if you held one of the bullets that allegedly killed the President, would you forget that, ever?

How was Odum to know what the heck Aguilar was talking about?

But he did know. The transcript shows that Odum even asked Aguilar if he was talking about the bullet found at Parkland.

I suspect Odum probably thought Aguilar was asking about events on 11/22/63 (not June of 1964).

There is no reason to conclude that.

After all, Odum asked if Aguilar was one of the doctors.

No he didn't. He asked Aguilar if he was a doctor. Aguilar has M.D. behind his name and wrote Odum a letter before calling him. Odum confirmed that he received the letter.

CE2011 is the FBI’s official response to a letter from a presidential commission to the head of the FBI.  Therefore it is reasonable to believe that CE2011 would be accurate.

That's exactly the problem with this kind of stuff. "It's from the FBI, so it must be true". Never mind that the CE2011 report states that Tomlinson allegedly told Odum that the bullet shown "appears to be the same one he found on a hospital carriage at Parkland Hospital" and that Wright said it "looks like the slug found at Parkland Hospital" when there is absolutely no record whatsoever that either man made such a comment.

Even worse, Wright is on record that the bullet now known as CE399 does not resemble the pointed bullet he had seen and handled and Tomlinson is on record that he was only shown a bullet once, in December 1963, by SAC Shanklin (and thus not Odum in june 1964).

And that's not all. In his Airtel to Director FBI, of 6/20/64, Dallas SAC Shanklin wrote: "neither Darrell C. Tomlinson, who found bullet at Parkland Hospital, nor O.P. Wright, Personnel Officer, Parkland Hospital, who obtained bullet from Tomlinson and gave to Special Agent Richard E, Johnson, Secret Service, at Dallas 11/22/63, can identify bullet.

Also, no FD 302 written by Odum on this subject was ever found.

https://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/images/Slide10.GIF

So, if CE2011 isn't a fabrication, where exactly did they get that Tomlinson said it "appears to be the same one he found on a hospital carriage at Parkland Hospital" and that Wright said it "looks like the slug found at Parkland Hospital"?

« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 06:45:07 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: The Walker Case
« Reply #231 on: July 12, 2023, 05:59:24 PM »