RIP to the Single-bullet theory?

[Royell Storing]

Speer puts it quite succinctly:

"It's as simple as this.... Consider: the President of a third world country is murdered and the crime scene investigator tasked with building a case against his suspected assassin fails to take pictures of not one but three important pieces of evidence (the box the assassin supposedly sat on, the bag supposedly used by the assassin to smuggle his weapon into the building from which the fatal shots were fired, and the palm print on the underside of the weapon supposedly used in the assassination), and instead gives tours of the crime scene to the media, and parades key evidence before the cameras. He then takes a few days off, during which he fails to perform any of the comparisons or tests he knows can shed further light on the case.

And not only that, in the investigation that follows, he tells numerous lies about the evidence, and pays no price for his dishonesty."


There was no print on the barrel of the rifle.
That's why there was no print when Latona received it.
That's why Day never mentioned it to Drain.

Day took a fresh palm print from Oswald and put it on the rifle.
He then lifted this print from the rifle.
That's why the forged print matches the rifle.

On a different note - I've been at this about three years now and it's not until this thread has it dawned on me that a lot of LNers have the same mentality as a lot of the more extreme, tinfoil CTers.
There is literally no room for debate.
This aspect of the case stinks to high heaven. The very kindest thing that can be said is that it represents staggering incompetence, yet it appears to the LNer mind that it is all above board and run-of-the-mill.
And it wouldn't be so bad if this was an isolated example of staggering incompetence as far the investigation into JFK's murder goes.
But it isn't.
Not by a long shot.

   Just how "incompetent" is it to parade the alleged murder weapon by its' strap down several blocks of ongoing traffic in the middle of the day? From that point forward, Day was in total cover-up mode. 

[John Iacoletti]

Does anyone know whose initials those are beside Day’s initials, when they were put there, etc?

George M. Doughty

[Charles Collins]

Yes, I know he claimed that. It’s uncorroborated by Fritz and Curry, and wasn’t publicly mentioned by Fritz or Curry even though they discussed other evidence, including prints that they had.

This would be a “not my job” evasion. But Day is the one who handed the evidence over, not Curry and Fritz.

That’s not relevant. They agreed to turn the evidence over. How could the FBI request something they didn’t even know existed?

So which is it then? He didn’t think it was necessary, or he didn’t have time?

One thing Speer points out is that the FBI manual is very clear that prints should always be photographed first before trying to develop them, and Latona reiterates that. Yes, Day was not FBI, but he mentions in his testimony having gone through advanced latent-print school conducted by the FBI.

They were still on the rifle, and thus part of it. The rifle had a CSSS. It’s how they logged evidence in the possession of the police department.They were submitted to the Crime Scene Search Section of the Dallas Police Department for (supposedly) safe keeping and control.

By anybody. Day didn’t get around to writing a report about this for two months.

Apologies. I misread what you wrote. I thought you were saying that Day didn’t say the foregrip was the reason he didn’t cover it with cellophane. I think the “maybe the part that was sticking out was still protected” speculation is just yet another case of trying to resolve a discrepancy by proposing a hypothetical for which there is no evidence.

Frankly, I think your suggestion that Day was just more skilled at locating prints than Latona is the most absurd possibility.

Hoover’s letter and indistinct smudge with no background details certainly does exist. That doesn’t make it reliable or conclusive evidence.

You are indeed mistaken. It wasn’t until the time of the HSCA (1977) that Day started claiming he told Drain about the print.

The question remains, why the hell not?

No. Latona said he received it on November 29th.

It has nothing to do with “liking it”. In light of the many discrepancies, contradictions, morphing memories, CYA, and hedging, “Day said so” just doesn’t cut it.

This would be a “not my job” evasion. But Day is the one who handed the evidence over, not Curry and Fritz.

Again, Day turned over the evidence that he said he was specifically instructed to turn over. The FBI had no jurisdiction. Why do you “feel” that it was incumbent upon Day to turn over (or even announce to the FBI) evidence that he was not instructed to turn over?


That’s not relevant. They agreed to turn the evidence over. How could the FBI request something they didn’t even know existed?

It is very relevant. The DPD was trying to cooperate with the FBI. The palm print had just been discovered and was still being processed. Apparently word about the palm print had not yet spread to the FBI. Day simply followed orders. Things were evolving while decisions were being made. The FBI was rushing things and subsequently there was confusion. You can suspect some “mysterious wrongdoings” all you wish. But there is no evidence of any of that.


They were still on the rifle, and thus part of it. The rifle had a CSSS. It’s how they logged evidence in the possession of the police department.They were submitted to the Crime Scene Search Section of the Dallas Police Department for (supposedly) safe keeping and control.


It appears to me that most (if not all) of the evidence lacked your supposed CSSS reports. So, I think that your complaint that the palm print lacked one and therefore is somehow suspected of forgery is not relevant. Here’s a snip from “Assignment: Oswald” by James Hosty, pp 107-110:

Tuesday, November 26, 1963 TIME: 8:30 A.M. By the time DeBrueys and I arrived back at the police station to resume our work the next day, Henry Wade, the Dallas district attorney, had convinced the police that they should release all the evidence to the FBI. Because the transport of all the evidence was going to take a lot of work, Ken Howe came over to Lieutenant Potts’s office to help us. The police mandated several conditions for the release of all the evidence. They wanted two of their property men to accompany us to our FBI office to assure the chain of custody. They also wanted us to catalog and photograph everything, then provide them copies. That’s mighty big of them, I thought, seeing they’d had the past four days to do that themselves. With practically no help from the police, DeBrueys, Howe, and I boxed up everything and began lugging the boxes downstairs to the police garage and my car. About 90 minutes later, we packed the last box into the backseat. With the trunk and backseat crammed full of evidence, Howe and DeBrueys climbed into the front seat, and I climbed in behind the wheel. The two property officers got into their car, and with them following, I drove out of the garage. I guess word traveled fast that the FBI was taking away the evidence from the assassination, because as my car reached the top of the garage exit ramp we were met by a dozen television cameramen and photographers. With bulbs flashing rapid-fire and television reporters solemnly announcing that the FBI was driving off with the evidence, I maneuvered our way out of there. TIME: 11:00 A.M. After unloading the evidence, we took the boxes up to the seventh floor, where we found a couple of long tables and set up shop. DeBrueys grabbed a Minox camera and propped it up on a kind of tripod so that it was about 12 inches above the table, its lens pointed straight down. While the two property officers looked on, I started feeding, one at a time, each of the items that had been seized. DeBrueys focused and snapped each item as they were fed through. When each item was photographed, we had to catalog and mark it. To say this process was time-consuming would be an understatement. It was particularly tiresome because of the sheer volume of personal papers belonging to Lee and Marina Oswald. With short breaks for lunch and dinner, DeBrueys and I worked long into the night. TIME: 12:45 A.M. DeBrueys and I were just about finished when Vince Drain, one of our liaisons to the Dallas police, came into the room. The two police property officers stirred just a little in their chairs, cocking their heads to listen. “Hey, the police still have some more evidence they forgot to give you,” Drain said. “Captain Fritz has in his desk Oswald’s wallet, one shell casing from the rifle on the sixth floor of the depository, and Oswald’s notebook. Fritz said to run over to his office and he’ll give this stuff to us. Hosty, Malley and Shanklin want you to go over there yourself and get it.” “Sure. I’ll head over there right now,” I said. DeBrueys continued to work, feeding the items in one at a time, photographing them, cataloging them. I put on my suit jacket and left. I had heard that Fritz was single and that he had an apartment just across the street from the police station. When I got down to the station about 1:00 A.M., Fritz was already there. He greeted me cordially, not the least upset that he had been roused from bed to hand over evidence. He walked me up to his office. It was quite a contrast to see his office and hallway at this hour: it was so empty and quiet compared to Friday afternoon’s chaotic scene. He unlocked his door, hit the light switch, and went over to his desk. He opened one of the drawers and pulled out the address book, wallet, and shell. I got out a piece of paper and wrote up a receipt of evidence:


By anybody. Day didn’t get around to writing a report about this for two months.

Day writing the description, date, initials, etc. on the lift card itself is documentation of the evidence by the authority who had jurisdiction. Your idea that a report or some CSSS report was necessary it just that, your idea.


Apologies. I misread what you wrote. I thought you were saying that Day didn’t say the foregrip was the reason he didn’t cover it with cellophane. I think the “maybe the part that was sticking out was still protected” speculation is just yet another case of trying to resolve a discrepancy by proposing a hypothetical for which there is no evidence.

The “discrepancy” is in your mind. I am just pointing out a possible solution to your “issue”.


Frankly, I think your suggestion that Day was just more skilled at locating prints than Latona is the most absurd possibility.

Now you are trying to attribute something to me that I didn’t say. I wrote about differences in colors of powder and perceptions. I didn’t say anything about who I thought was more skilled. 


Hoover’s letter and indistinct smudge with no background details certainly does exist. That doesn’t make it reliable or conclusive evidence.

Thank you for your opinion.


The question remains, why the hell not?

It wasn’t his place. That is how an organization like the DPD, military, etc works. It was up to Day’s superiors to share the information, if they decided to share it. I think that Day would have been out of line to share the existence of or turn over the palm print lift unless he had been instructed to do so.


No. Latona said he received it on November 29th.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that Day didn’t turn it over on the 26th.


It has nothing to do with “liking it”. In light of the many discrepancies, contradictions, morphing memories, CYA, and hedging, “Day said so” just doesn’t cut it.

You can suspect whatever you wish. Evidence of wrongdoing would be helpful if you want to convince others.

[Charles Collins]

George M. Doughty

Thanks. Any idea when he put them there?

[Martin Weidmann]

This would be a “not my job” evasion. But Day is the one who handed the evidence over, not Curry and Fritz.

Again, Day turned over the evidence that he said he was specifically instructed to turn over. The FBI had no jurisdiction. Why do you “feel” that it was incumbent upon Day to turn over (or even announce to the FBI) evidence that he was not instructed to turn over?


That’s not relevant. They agreed to turn the evidence over. How could the FBI request something they didn’t even know existed?

It is very relevant. The DPD was trying to cooperate with the FBI. The palm print had just been discovered and was still being processed. Apparently word about the palm print had not yet spread to the FBI. Day simply followed orders. Things were evolving while decisions were being made. The FBI was rushing things and subsequently there was confusion. You can suspect some “mysterious wrongdoings” all you wish. But there is no evidence of any of that.


They were still on the rifle, and thus part of it. The rifle had a CSSS. It’s how they logged evidence in the possession of the police department.They were submitted to the Crime Scene Search Section of the Dallas Police Department for (supposedly) safe keeping and control.


It appears to me that most (if not all) of the evidence lacked your supposed CSSS reports. So, I think that your complaint that the palm print lacked one and therefore is somehow suspected of forgery is not relevant. Here’s a snip from “Assignment: Oswald” by James Hosty, pp 107-110:

Tuesday, November 26, 1963 TIME: 8:30 A.M. By the time DeBrueys and I arrived back at the police station to resume our work the next day, Henry Wade, the Dallas district attorney, had convinced the police that they should release all the evidence to the FBI. Because the transport of all the evidence was going to take a lot of work, Ken Howe came over to Lieutenant Potts’s office to help us. The police mandated several conditions for the release of all the evidence. They wanted two of their property men to accompany us to our FBI office to assure the chain of custody. They also wanted us to catalog and photograph everything, then provide them copies. That’s mighty big of them, I thought, seeing they’d had the past four days to do that themselves. With practically no help from the police, DeBrueys, Howe, and I boxed up everything and began lugging the boxes downstairs to the police garage and my car. About 90 minutes later, we packed the last box into the backseat. With the trunk and backseat crammed full of evidence, Howe and DeBrueys climbed into the front seat, and I climbed in behind the wheel. The two property officers got into their car, and with them following, I drove out of the garage. I guess word traveled fast that the FBI was taking away the evidence from the assassination, because as my car reached the top of the garage exit ramp we were met by a dozen television cameramen and photographers. With bulbs flashing rapid-fire and television reporters solemnly announcing that the FBI was driving off with the evidence, I maneuvered our way out of there. TIME: 11:00 A.M. After unloading the evidence, we took the boxes up to the seventh floor, where we found a couple of long tables and set up shop. DeBrueys grabbed a Minox camera and propped it up on a kind of tripod so that it was about 12 inches above the table, its lens pointed straight down. While the two property officers looked on, I started feeding, one at a time, each of the items that had been seized. DeBrueys focused and snapped each item as they were fed through. When each item was photographed, we had to catalog and mark it. To say this process was time-consuming would be an understatement. It was particularly tiresome because of the sheer volume of personal papers belonging to Lee and Marina Oswald. With short breaks for lunch and dinner, DeBrueys and I worked long into the night. TIME: 12:45 A.M. DeBrueys and I were just about finished when Vince Drain, one of our liaisons to the Dallas police, came into the room. The two police property officers stirred just a little in their chairs, cocking their heads to listen. “Hey, the police still have some more evidence they forgot to give you,” Drain said. “Captain Fritz has in his desk Oswald’s wallet, one shell casing from the rifle on the sixth floor of the depository, and Oswald’s notebook. Fritz said to run over to his office and he’ll give this stuff to us. Hosty, Malley and Shanklin want you to go over there yourself and get it.” “Sure. I’ll head over there right now,” I said. DeBrueys continued to work, feeding the items in one at a time, photographing them, cataloging them. I put on my suit jacket and left. I had heard that Fritz was single and that he had an apartment just across the street from the police station. When I got down to the station about 1:00 A.M., Fritz was already there. He greeted me cordially, not the least upset that he had been roused from bed to hand over evidence. He walked me up to his office. It was quite a contrast to see his office and hallway at this hour: it was so empty and quiet compared to Friday afternoon’s chaotic scene. He unlocked his door, hit the light switch, and went over to his desk. He opened one of the drawers and pulled out the address book, wallet, and shell. I got out a piece of paper and wrote up a receipt of evidence:


By anybody. Day didn’t get around to writing a report about this for two months.

Day writing the description, date, initials, etc. on the lift card itself is documentation of the evidence by the authority who had jurisdiction. Your idea that a report or some CSSS report was necessary it just that, your idea.


Apologies. I misread what you wrote. I thought you were saying that Day didn’t say the foregrip was the reason he didn’t cover it with cellophane. I think the “maybe the part that was sticking out was still protected” speculation is just yet another case of trying to resolve a discrepancy by proposing a hypothetical for which there is no evidence.

The “discrepancy” is in your mind. I am just pointing out a possible solution to your “issue”.


Frankly, I think your suggestion that Day was just more skilled at locating prints than Latona is the most absurd possibility.

Now you are trying to attribute something to me that I didn’t say. I wrote about differences in colors of powder and perceptions. I didn’t say anything about who I thought was more skilled. 


Hoover’s letter and indistinct smudge with no background details certainly does exist. That doesn’t make it reliable or conclusive evidence.

Thank you for your opinion.


The question remains, why the hell not?

It wasn’t his place. That is how an organization like the DPD, military, etc works. It was up to Day’s superiors to share the information, if they decided to share it. I think that Day would have been out of line to share the existence of or turn over the palm print lift unless he had been instructed to do so.


No. Latona said he received it on November 29th.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that Day didn’t turn it over on the 26th.


It has nothing to do with “liking it”. In light of the many discrepancies, contradictions, morphing memories, CYA, and hedging, “Day said so” just doesn’t cut it.

You can suspect whatever you wish. Evidence of wrongdoing would be helpful if you want to convince others.

You can suspect whatever you wish. Evidence of wrongdoing would be helpful if you want to convince others.

I seriously doubt there is anything anybody can say or do that would convince you of anything.

The whole thing is very simple. Evidence needs to be authenticated and have a secure chain of custody to be credible. Day's palmprint on an index card has neither.
This basic fact alone makes it completely unreliable. Period.

There doesn't have to be evidence of wrongdoing. The chain of custody exists to prevent or at least reduce the possibility of manipulation of the evidence. Authentication of the evidence can not be assumed, yet that's exactly what you are doing.

[John Iacoletti]

It is very relevant. The DPD was trying to cooperate with the FBI. The palm print had just been discovered and was still being processed.

Then why did he do no further processing for the following 3 days?

It appears to me that most (if not all) of the evidence lacked your supposed CSSS reports.

I’m not sure why it appears that way to you.There’s nothing in your Hosty snip that would suggest that. But I direct your attention to the fact that Hosty also states that they were supposed to release “all the evidence”.

Day writing the description, date, initials, etc. on the lift card itself is documentation of the evidence by the authority who had jurisdiction. Your idea that a report or some CSSS report was necessary it just that, your idea.

Anybody can write “11/22/63” on an index card that nobody sees until 11/29.

Hoover’s letter and indistinct smudge with no background details certainly does exist. That doesn’t make it reliable or conclusive evidence.

Thank you for your opinion.

Thank you for your opinion that a letter and an indistinct smudge prove anything.

The question remains, why the hell not?

It wasn’t his place. That is how an organization like the DPD, military, etc works. It was up to Date’s superiors to share the information, if they decided to share it.

You’re trying to have it both ways. If it “wasn’t his place” then why does he claim to have verbally informed Drain about the print?

No. Latona said he received it on November 29th.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that Day didn’t turn it over on the 26th.

It does necessarily mean that it was sent separately from the other evidence.

You can suspect whatever you wish. Evidence of wrongdoing would be helpful if you want to convince others.

Evidence of authenticity would be helpful if you want to convince others.

[John Iacoletti]

Thanks. Any idea when he put them there?

Nope.

[Charles Collins]

So, George M. Doughty initialed the lift of the palm print that Day testified he found on the underside of the barrel of the rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD. Doughty was the head of the crime lab for the DPD during the time in question. So, I think that he must have initialed it before it was sent to the FBI. It appears to me that Day must have turned the palm print lift over to Doughty (who then initialed it and turned it over to the FBI). This supports my earlier contention that it wasn’t Day’s place to inform the FBI of evidence (or to turn over any evidence that he wasn’t specifically instructed to turn over). Day was simply following orders from his superior and reporting to his superiors.

The naysayers omit this little tidbit (Doughty’s initials) when they accuse Day of wrong doings. That is called distortion by omission. And it is very common among the CT folks. Also, they seem to think that they can conclude that there was wrongdoings without any evidence of wrongdoing. Yet, in this country the accused is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.