Josiah Thompson - Who Was the Umbrella Man?

[Dan O'meara]

Just to rectify some of the lies being spread on this thread.
Nowhere does Dino say that pieces of JFK's skull were blown 3 to 4 ft into the air. He is talking about the spray or mist of blood that surrounds JFK's head as a result of the head shot. So, when Della posts -

"The frames showing the piece of JFK's skull flying into the air had been removed"

- it is incredibly misleading. Dino never says that frames showing pieces of skull have been removed. He never even hints at it. But this is the kind of misrepresentation/falsehood, that takes hold when enough Altfans get together.
The clip from the Z-film I posted clearly shows this cloud of mist but we must remember that Dino was watching the pristine original. He watched it many times in slow-motion and real time and studied individual frames. He saw much greater detail than the copies we see today and could see this cloud of mist more clearly. It must also be noted that the clip I posted shows pieces of skull being blown about 20ft into the air.
The biggest lie [and there are many] in "The Zapruder Film Mystery" comes about 34 minutes in when Dino is showed a single frame, 313 and told that this is only frame of the Z-film that shows the head explosion. This is the kind of outright lie that Alteration Fantasists have no problem spreading. It is incredibly devious.
The whole film is incredibly devious and Horne's manipulation of Dino, who is a genuine person, is disgusting.
But this is all in a day's work for Altfans.

In my previous post I pointed out a series of incorrect statements made by Della.
There has been zero acknowledgement that these were, indeed, false statements. It's the usual tactic of spreading falsehoods and just silently moving on when these are pointed out only to re-emerge at a later date spreading exactly the same falsehoods.

But let's remember this truth about the film...
Horne is the ultimate Altfan.
All his research is geared to demonstrating that the Z-film has been altered.
He believes the limo stop has been deleted, that debris flew out of the back of JFK's head and this has been deleted, that the back of JFK's head has been blacked out and that the head wound has been painted in [ , I shouldn't laugh but this last 'belief' is too much].
He has sat in front of him a man who intensely studied the original Z-film.
Does he ask this man about the limo stop?
Does he ask this man about debris being blown out of the back of JFK's head?
Does he ask about the injuries apparent on JFK's head?
Does he ask him if he believes the Z-film was altered?

NO - NO, HE DOESN'T ASK HIM A SINGLE THING ABOUT ALTERATION.

It's all a massive con and a lie,
Dino never says a single thing that supports alteration. NEVER.
Horne's disgusting manipulation of what Dino actually says is stomach churning.
But it's all in a days work for Altfans.

One last point, because I am genuinely interested in the state of mind of an Altfan.
Hornes' belief is that the Z-film is altered to hide evidence that there is another shooter.
Yet, the single factor about the Z-film that stands head and shoulders above everything else is the "back and to the left" motion.
If anything demonstrates there is a shooter from the front it's the "back and to the left" motion.
I believe this sole factor is the single most influential piece of evidence when it comes to believing in conspiracy.

So, here's the question - what's the point of altering anything in the film to hide evidence of another shooter when the "back and to the left" motion remains in the film?
I'm genuinely interested in seeing what mental gymnastics are going to be utilised answering this question.

[Royell Storing]

                                                                        Just a couple of quick observations:

     (1) You got serious issue(s) with Horne. This makes you incapable of objectively examining ANYTHING that Horne is connected to.

     (2) We really do Not know if Dino was examining the ORIGINAL out-of-the-camera Zapruder Film on 11/23/63.

     (3) We really do Not know if We are currently looking at the ORIGINAL out-of-the-camera Zapruder Film.

[Della Cross]

The ARRB in late 1990 discovered that Knudsen's HSCA testimony had been sealed for roughly 20 years and therefore was completely unknown to the public. The ARRB got Knudsen's "probe(s)" testimony unsealed, and added it to the public record. Point is, if the powers that be can completely seal the testimony of a highly respected individual such as Knudsen, who knows what other highly credible sources have also had their JFK Assassination testimony expunged from the public record?

Thank you, I did not know about this alteration of the record. Who or what is behind such a widespread and highly organized campaign of deletion, suppression and deception in the assassination of JFK?  Let's begin with the Secret Service.  While JFK was still in Parkland, a Secret Service agent was photographed as he removed blood spatter from the presidential limo with a bucket and sponge.  In heaven's name, why would a law enforcement officer do such an illegal thing? Blood spatter is primary evidence in any homicide investigation. Removing or concealing such evidence is a criminal act. The agent would never have taken this forbidden action unless he had been ordered to do so by a superior. Which means, within minutes of the assassination, a coverup campaign was already under way, and the Secret Service was running it. But why? They certainly weren't out to protect LHO.
What could they possibly have been trying to conceal? Were they trying to protect their own reputations?
The book "Mortal Error" concludes that after LHO fired from the 6th floor, Secret Service agent George Hickey, in the backup car, picked up his AR-15 rifle and stood up on the rear seat, a brave man preparing to return fire in defense of the president. But, when the motorcade changed speeds, Hickey was thrown off balance. His finger involuntarily tightened on the trigger.  If the rifle was set to full automatic, he may have accidentally fired a burst of 4 or 5 shots.  One or more of these bullets struck JFK's head.   
 After the president's autopsy in Washington, JFK's brain -- which was a prime piece of evidence and which a surgeon was carrying in a metal container -- disappeared.  Many years later we learned that two Secret Service agents had told the surgeon that the president's brother, Robert F. Kennedy, on behalf of the Kennedy family, had asked for the brain, which the surgeon then gave to the agents.  It was never seen again.  In short, right from the beginning, the Secret Service has been running a coverup campaign in order to protect their own reputation.  The "Zapruder Film Mystery" on YouTube focuses on how the Secret Service arranged the alteration of the original 8 mm. Z film.  They are still trying to cover up a terrible, tragic accident. So are the many people who also know this secret. This coverup has had traumatic effects on a tense America that senses something about the assassination of President Kennedy doesn't make sense, but which has been prevented from learning the truth.
 And so we argue and fight among ourselves. In other words, the Secret Service engaged in a coverup that protects the agency at the expense of the nation and the people it serves. 

[Royell Storing]

The ARRB in late 1990 discovered that Knudsen's HSCA testimony had been sealed for roughly 20 years and therefore was completely unknown to the public. The ARRB got Knudsen's "probe(s)" testimony unsealed, and added it to the public record. Point is, if the powers that be can completely seal the testimony of a highly respected individual such as Knudsen, who knows what other highly credible sources have also had their JFK Assassination testimony expunged from the public record?

Thank you, I did not know about this alteration of the record. Who or what is behind such a widespread and highly organized campaign of deletion, suppression and deception in the assassination of JFK?  Let's begin with the Secret Service.  While JFK was still in Parkland, a Secret Service agent was photographed as he removed blood spatter from the presidential limo with a bucket and sponge.  In heaven's name, why would a law enforcement officer do such an illegal thing? Blood spatter is primary evidence in any homicide investigation. Removing or concealing such evidence is a criminal act. The agent would never have taken this forbidden action unless he had been ordered to do so by a superior. Which means, within minutes of the assassination, a coverup campaign was already under way, and the Secret Service was running it. But why? They certainly weren't out to protect LHO.
What could they possibly have been trying to conceal? Were they trying to protect their own reputations?
The book "Mortal Error" concludes that after LHO fired from the 6th floor, Secret Service agent George Hickey, in the backup car, picked up his AR-15 rifle and stood up on the rear seat, a brave man preparing to return fire in defense of the president. But, when the motorcade changed speeds, Hickey was thrown off balance. His finger involuntarily tightened on the trigger.  If the rifle was set to full automatic, he may have accidentally fired a burst of 4 or 5 shots.  One or more of these bullets struck JFK's head.   
 After the president's autopsy in Washington, JFK's brain -- which was a prime piece of evidence and which a surgeon was carrying in a metal container -- disappeared.  Many years later we learned that two Secret Service agents had told the surgeon that the president's brother, Robert F. Kennedy, on behalf of the Kennedy family, had asked for the brain, which the surgeon then gave to the agents.  It was never seen again.  In short, right from the beginning, the Secret Service has been running a coverup campaign in order to protect their own reputation.  The "Zapruder Film Mystery" on YouTube focuses on how the Secret Service arranged the alteration of the original 8 mm. Z film.  They are still trying to cover up a terrible, tragic accident. So are the many people who also know this secret. This coverup has had traumatic effects on a tense America that senses something about the assassination of President Kennedy doesn't make sense, but which has been prevented from learning the truth.
 And so we argue and fight among ourselves. In other words, the Secret Service engaged in a coverup that protects the agency at the expense of the nation and the people it serves.

     And be sure to add to your detailed list above that the SS STOLE THE BODY.

[Dan O'meara]

                                                                        Just a couple of quick observations:

     (1) You got serious issue(s) with Horne. This makes you incapable of objectively examining ANYTHING that Horne is connected to.

Horne maybe your hero but he's certainly not mine.
Calling out  on this forum is par for the course.
"The Zapruder Film Mystery" is an exercise in underhand, insidious deception, The way Dino is used by Horne is disgraceful. That you have no problem with it speaks volumes.
If I'm not looking at it objectively then point out a single aspect of the film that supports alteration of the Z-film.

     (2) We really do Not know if Dino was examining the ORIGINAL out-of-the-camera Zapruder Film on 11/23/63.

     (3) We really do Not know if We are currently looking at the ORIGINAL out-of-the-camera Zapruder Film.

Do some work and read the Zavada Report. You'll soon put this juvenile alterationist nonsense behind you.

[Michael Welch]

Is it possible to explain away the 16mm film SSA Bill Smith brought to NPIC on 11-24-63. It had been developed at Hawkeye Works in Rochester, New York. From it Homer McMann[sp?] and Ben Hunter made three boards. One of the boards says 9 missing frames, 6 missing frames, 4 missing frames. When Abraham Zapruder was asked at the Shaw trial was the film they were viewing the original Zapruder film that he shot, he said no, because he noticed missing frames. Can any of this be explained away? Sincerely yours, Michael

[Dan O'meara]

Is it possible to explain away the 16mm film SSA Bill Smith brought to NPIC on 11-24-63. It had been developed at Hawkeye Works in Rochester, New York. From it Homer McMann[sp?] and Ben Hunter made three boards. One of the boards says 9 missing frames, 6 missing frames, 4 missing frames. When Abraham Zapruder was asked at the Shaw trial was the film they were viewing the original Zapruder film that he shot, he said no, because he noticed missing frames. Can any of this be explained away? Sincerely yours, Michael

1) 3 copies of the original were made.
2) Apparently, four frames of the original were destroyed by buffoons at Life.  Luckily copies had been made to replace these frames.

[Michael Welch]

1) 3 copies of the original were made.
2) Apparently, four frames of the original were destroyed by buffoons at Life.  Luckily copies had been made to replace these frames.

Hi Dan, Thank you for your input; however, SSA Smith brought a 16mm Zapruder film; the original and the three copies were all 8mm. Can you explain the difference? Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael