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Author Topic: Roger Craig  (Read 22237 times)

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2023, 10:39:55 AM »
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1. LN: The old dudes inspecting the rifle, as shown in the Alyea film, may have needed their reading glasses on, and made some wrong assessments. (Day & Fritz of course)
2. CT: The DPD was said to have "brought out rifles" from the homicide car "to assist them in securing the building." Quote from none other than Sheriff Bill Decker. But obviously no one has offered any way for this guarded rifle location to have been infiltrated by a rifle-switcher.
3. CT/Undecided: There are three witnesses of a Mauser 7.65 mm rifle. But ... they all seem to be relying on what appears to be questionable authority, with Craig being the outlier. Or, they are all untouched by the conspiracy/corruption of the DPD.

Mauser men:
1. Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman (Dallas County Constable Robie Love office)
2. Deputy Eugene L. Boone (DCS). He testified that good ole' Capt. Fritz said it looked like a 7.65 mm Mauser. See #1, above above. (Fritz and Day vehemently denied this.)
3. Dep. Roger Craig (DCS) – partner of Ralph Walters (some researcher may have asked him at some point?)

See also, WH10 - Howard Price testimony.

Also, I don't think foil has been made of tin for the better part of a century.

Do you agree that the Alyea film shows a Mannlicher Carcano?

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2023, 10:39:55 AM »


Offline Billy Carr

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2023, 09:46:59 AM »
I think that if the Alyea showed something else besides a M-C, it would be front-page news and the top story of the century. So yeah.

The Alyea film is a bit grainy. But the Lt. Day photos, with and without his knee, seem to show a rifle that matches CD-1, yes.

For those of you seeing this at a later point: there are two photos of the rifle in situ on the 6th floor, before it was picked up and famously broadcast by ABC. These are my GIFs of the two photos that were taken, with a comparison to the rifle as photographed by the FBI and published in Commission Document 1.

I believe that there is a match, although I understand that there is an issue with whether a scope is shown in the photo. If Robin is around, you have my permission to add these to the gallery if you like them. It's from a study I did several years ago.

"In-situ-sharpen-zoom" and "ToKneeOrNotToKnee" have been linked. The 2nd one is a huge file.

Also, Alyea commented about the "Mauser" controversy and said it was absurd. Said it was essentially made up by Weitzman.

https://imgur.com/QzDrqRo
https://imgur.com/gTdVvtq

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2023, 09:58:29 AM »
I think that if the Alyea showed something else besides a M-C, it would be front-page news and the top story of the century. So yeah.

The Alyea film is a bit grainy. But the Lt. Day photos, with and without his knee, seem to show a rifle that matches CD-1, yes.

For those of you seeing this at a later point: there are two photos of the rifle in situ on the 6th floor, before it was picked up and famously broadcast by ABC. These are my GIFs of the two photos that were taken, with a comparison to the rifle as photographed by the FBI and published in Commission Document 1.

I believe that there is a match, although I understand that there is an issue with whether a scope is shown in the photo. If Robin is around, you have my permission to add these to the gallery if you like them. It's from a study I did several years ago.

"In-situ-sharpen-zoom" and "ToKneeOrNotToKnee" have been linked. The 2nd one is a huge file.

Also, Alyea commented about the "Mauser" controversy and said it was absurd. Said it was essentially made up by Weitzman.

https://imgur.com/QzDrqRo
https://imgur.com/gTdVvtq

The rifle Day pulls up from the boxes is no doubt a Mannlicher Carcano.
So, what do you make of Roger Craig's comment that he was stood inches from the rifle when it was given to Fritz and saw "Mauser" stamped on the barrel?
[Excellent gifs by the way]

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2023, 09:58:29 AM »


Offline Billy Carr

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2023, 12:01:12 AM »
The rifle Day pulls up from the boxes is no doubt a Mannlicher Carcano.
So, what do you make of Roger Craig's comment that he was stood inches from the rifle when it was given to Fritz and saw "Mauser" stamped on the barrel?
-Excellent gifs by the way

Craig was just a patsy!

Ok, just kidding. I have no idea what to make of it, so I just add it to the information that is problematic for the Kennedy case. I think some of his other testimony: the Nash Rambler and the comment reported by Craig that he met with Lee Harvey Oswald and heard him state that the Rambler belonged to Mrs. Paine. Also, his failure to see the rifle bag.

"The most striking inquiries, however, concern the statements in Gemberling's
report by three people whose information the Bureau apparently did not want to
believe: Roger Craig, Arnold Rowland and Albert Bogard (Craig claimed to see
Oswald entering a car at the TSBD shortly after the assassination, Rowland said
he saw a gunman at the southwest 6th floor window of the TSBD, and Bogard
claimed to have witnessed an auto test-drive by the non-driving Oswald.) The
Bureau asked, in effect, that Craig's "reliability" be impugned and that Bogard
be subjected to a lie detector test. To the credit of Dallas FBI, the 12/11
response indicates that in all three cases the men stuck by their stories and
Craig was given an honesty testimonial by Sheriff Decker."

(I found this in a follow-up concerning an article in The Third Decade, January 1985, "THE PAPER BAG: AN FBI BLUEPRINT FOR REVISED DOCUMENTS
by Edgar F. Tatro. There were later developments. I think this was in an April or later 1985 edition, but I am unsure when, because my copy doesn't say when the quoted text was written or by whom. It's in a PDF that says Gimberling Report: CD5 proved fake on the paper sack)

Craig does seem:
1) Somewhat reliable
2) Sure that his testimony was modified by the FBI

I'm not sure when he was first recorded as stating his theory on the Mauser, but in his book, it's blamed on the identification of Weitzman (who we take as a rifle expert) and Fritz, who agreed with Weitzman, that it was a 7.65 mm Mauser. By the time the Warren Omission interviewed Weitzman, he is "fairly familiar because I was in the sporting goods business awhile" and that his observation of the rifle was "in a glance" versus the "close examination" characterization of the event by Craig. I don't know how Craig maintained the Mauser label after the other testimonies were adapted to make the Mauser identification an honest mistake due to haste ... except that due to all of the other problems that he experienced with his testimony and how the FBI altered it, Roger Craig got more and more cynical about whether we should trust anything the government did.

If I was to put words in Craig's mouth to defend him, I think he would say that if the FBI was in the habit of changing* testimony, why not the rifle, too? In his mind, two reliable witnesses a few feet from him had identified the rifle as being a 7.65 mm Mauser.

*I am loosely referring to Craig's unpublished book, When They Kill a President, 1971.

"Combine the foregoing with the run-in I had with Dave Belin, junior counsel for the Warren
Commission, who questioned me in April of 1964, and who changed my testimony fourteen
times
when he sent it to Washington, and you will have some idea of the pressures brought to
bear."


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2023, 12:46:10 AM »
Craig was just a patsy!

Ok, just kidding. I have no idea what to make of it, so I just add it to the information that is problematic for the Kennedy case. I think some of his other testimony: the Nash Rambler and the comment reported by Craig that he met with Lee Harvey Oswald and heard him state that the Rambler belonged to Mrs. Paine. Also, his failure to see the rifle bag.

"The most striking inquiries, however, concern the statements in Gemberling's
report by three people whose information the Bureau apparently did not want to
believe: Roger Craig, Arnold Rowland and Albert Bogard (Craig claimed to see
Oswald entering a car at the TSBD shortly after the assassination, Rowland said
he saw a gunman at the southwest 6th floor window of the TSBD, and Bogard
claimed to have witnessed an auto test-drive by the non-driving Oswald.) The
Bureau asked, in effect, that Craig's "reliability" be impugned and that Bogard
be subjected to a lie detector test. To the credit of Dallas FBI, the 12/11
response indicates that in all three cases the men stuck by their stories and
Craig was given an honesty testimonial by Sheriff Decker."

(I found this in a follow-up concerning an article in The Third Decade, January 1985, "THE PAPER BAG: AN FBI BLUEPRINT FOR REVISED DOCUMENTS
by Edgar F. Tatro. There were later developments. I think this was in an April or later 1985 edition, but I am unsure when, because my copy doesn't say when the quoted text was written or by whom. It's in a PDF that says Gimberling Report: CD5 proved fake on the paper sack)

Craig does seem:
1) Somewhat reliable
2) Sure that his testimony was modified by the FBI

I'm not sure when he was first recorded as stating his theory on the Mauser, but in his book, it's blamed on the identification of Weitzman (who we take as a rifle expert) and Fritz, who agreed with Weitzman, that it was a 7.65 mm Mauser. By the time the Warren Omission interviewed Weitzman, he is "fairly familiar because I was in the sporting goods business awhile" and that his observation of the rifle was "in a glance" versus the "close examination" characterization of the event by Craig. I don't know how Craig maintained the Mauser label after the other testimonies were adapted to make the Mauser identification an honest mistake due to haste ... except that due to all of the other problems that he experienced with his testimony and how the FBI altered it, Roger Craig got more and more cynical about whether we should trust anything the government did.

If I was to put words in Craig's mouth to defend him, I think he would say that if the FBI was in the habit of changing* testimony, why not the rifle, too? In his mind, two reliable witnesses a few feet from him had identified the rifle as being a 7.65 mm Mauser.

*I am loosely referring to Craig's unpublished book, When They Kill a President, 1971.

"Combine the foregoing with the run-in I had with Dave Belin, junior counsel for the Warren
Commission, who questioned me in April of 1964, and who changed my testimony fourteen
times
when he sent it to Washington, and you will have some idea of the pressures brought to
bear."



I find it interesting that in his report, made the day after the assassination, Craig outlines the Rambler story and identifying Oswald as the man he saw running down the incline.
It's the very next day after the assassination and Craig has to submit a report. I find it difficult to believe he would make this story up but his insistence, many years later,  that he saw Mauser stamped on the rifle, really does undermine his credibility in general as far as I'm concerned.
But I do believe he saw someone who he believed to be Oswald running down the incline. This doesn't mean it was Oswald, just that Craig believed it was. I also suspect Craig felt there was something really crooked going on with the DPD and the investigation of the assassination and he wanted to show it up for the lie he believed it was.

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2023, 12:46:10 AM »


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2023, 04:33:14 PM »
It was just a first impression made by guys who never examined the rifle properly.

How is squinting at poor quality film footage "examining the rifle properly"?

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2023, 04:34:14 PM »
Some people believe what they want to believe (despite the evidence that indicates otherwise). This phenomenon is not uncommon. There are a lot of people who believe there was a conspiracy (despite no credible evidence of one, after almost 60-years of trying to dream up some evidence).

And a lot of people believe that Oswald killed Kennedy, despite no credible evidence that he did.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2023, 08:12:46 PM »
How is squinting at poor quality film footage "examining the rifle properly"?

??
They were in the room with the rifle.
I am unaware that those who made the initial claim about a Mauser had examined the rifle properly.

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Re: Roger Craig
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2023, 08:12:46 PM »