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Author Topic: Arnold Rowland  (Read 8772 times)

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Arnold Rowland
« on: November 12, 2023, 08:03:40 AM »
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Arnold Rowland
« on: November 12, 2023, 08:03:40 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2023, 03:52:20 PM »

Isn't it weird that, not long before the motorcade entered Dealey Plaza, Rowland saw a slender white male holding a scoped rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building.
He should have been a star witness for the WC but instead they tried to destroy him.
Go figure.

Offline Fergus O'Brien

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2023, 05:31:33 PM »
i have to agree with you dan . but his testimony was problematic doe the commission . if they accepted what he said they had to admit that a negro gentleman was hanging out of the 6th floor snipers nest window , and thus was to all intents and purposes inside the snipers nest . the time according to rowland was 12.15 on his watch and 12.16 on the hertz clock on the depository roof . the man with the rifle that he saw was in a window on the other end of the 6th floor , the end nearest the knoll .

this is also roughly about the same time that carolyn arnold said she saw oswald alone in the lunchroom . the two women with her corroborated her time wise . however they did not step inside the lunchroom , they stayed outside , so they never saw oswald .

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2023, 05:31:33 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2023, 05:58:09 PM »
i have to agree with you dan . but his testimony was problematic doe the commission . if they accepted what he said they had to admit that a negro gentleman was hanging out of the 6th floor snipers nest window , and thus was to all intents and purposes inside the snipers nest . the time according to rowland was 12.15 on his watch and 12.16 on the hertz clock on the depository roof . the man with the rifle that he saw was in a window on the other end of the 6th floor , the end nearest the knoll .

this is also roughly about the same time that carolyn arnold said she saw oswald alone in the lunchroom . the two women with her corroborated her time wise . however they did not step inside the lunchroom , they stayed outside , so they never saw oswald .

The fly in the ointment was Bonnie Ray Williams.
It was finally established that Bonnie Ray was up on the 6th floor from about 12:00 - 12:25pm. For some reason the WC couldn't have Oswald sneaking into position just before the shooting so they had him silently hid in the SN while Bonnie Ray sat behind a dirty, closed window for the best part of half an hour.


Offline Fergus O'Brien

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2023, 02:28:25 PM »
again we agree . williams was up there on the 6th floor until a time closely approaching or at 12.25 . and feet form the snipers nest . logically if we assume he was the only negro gentleman on the 6th floor between midday and 12.30 well then he should have been the man rowland saw leaning out of the snipers nest window at 12.16 . but that said the description given was of an older man , as far as i am aware williams was a younger man .maybe glare of the sun on his head made him look white haired ? .i dont know . but if williams was the man in the window it means oswald was not in there with him at that time .williams was a fly in the ointment as you say but there were others in that building .

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2023, 02:28:25 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2023, 09:14:51 AM »
again we agree . williams was up there on the 6th floor until a time closely approaching or at 12.25 . and feet form the snipers nest . logically if we assume he was the only negro gentleman on the 6th floor between midday and 12.30 well then he should have been the man rowland saw leaning out of the snipers nest window at 12.16 . but that said the description given was of an older man , as far as i am aware williams was a younger man .maybe glare of the sun on his head made him look white haired ? .i dont know . but if williams was the man in the window it means oswald was not in there with him at that time .williams was a fly in the ointment as you say but there were others in that building .

There are a couple of reasons why Rowland believes the man in the SN is elderly.
The first is that the man appears to be bald, which is something that would heavily suggest an older person:

"He was very thin, an elderly gentleman, bald or practically bald, very thin hair if he wasn't bald..."

The fact of the matter is that Bonnie Ray could easily be mistaken for a bald man. He has a very high forehead and really closely cropped black hair :



Against a dark background Bonnie Ray's close cropped, black hair would've all but disappeared leaving just his high forehead visible. Viewed by someone at street level, looking up towards Bonnie Ray, he would definitely have appeared to be a bald man:



There is another reason why Rowland thought it was an older man:

Seemed like his face was either--I can't recall detail but it was either very wrinkled or marked in some way.


Bonnie Ray's face was "marked in some way" that would have given him an older appearance. Although not unheard of for a young man, it was usually older men who had a moustache. These two attributes - appearing to be bald and having a moustache - would have most definitely given Bonnie Ray an older appearance.
It must be remembered that being viewed from a distance would have made it harder to gauge his age. Rowland makes the same point about the man with the rifle:

This is again just my estimation. He was--I think I remember telling my wife that he appeared in his early thirties. This could be obscured because of the distance, I mean.

And finally, Rowland didn't really pay that much attention to the man in the SN window as it was the man with the rifle he was interested in:

It seemed to me an elderly Negro, that is about all. I didn't pay very much attention to him.

I don't think Rowland mistaking a younger man for a much older man is that much of an issue in this case. There are plenty of mitigating factors that influenced this observation. And that this man was Bonnie Ray Williams is supported by a key piece of evidence.
When the SN was first discovered, all the first officers on the scene reported seeing lunch remains in the south-east corner. Three officers described seeing the lunch remains on top of the boxes that formed the back wall of the SN!
At least four more officers report seeing the lunch remains in this area. Most tellingly of all are multiple descriptions of a partially eaten piece of chicken left on top of the SN. By the time the Crime Lab arrived on the scene these remains had been removed a couple of aisles along and placed by a small trolley near a window.
What were Bonnie Ray's lunch remains doing on the SN? This evidence strongly points to Bonnie Ray having had his lunch while sat in the SN.
This would also make more sense in that Rowland reports the man in the SN kind of hanging out the window. And why not, it's a beautiful day, there's the buzz of the crowds below and a great view of the approaching motorcade.
But the official narrative would have Bonnie Ray sat for almost half an hour watching events through a dirty, closed window. I don't really buy that..
Another detail of Rowland's observation of the man in the SN rings true. Rowland states that this man disappeared about five minutes before the motorcade arrived:

Mr. Specter: So that you observed this colored man on the window you have marked "A" within 5 minutes prior to the time the motorcade passed in front of you?
Mr. Rowland: Approximately 5 minutes prior to the time the motorcade came, he wasn't there. About 30 seconds or a minute prior to that time he was there.


This tallies perfectly with Bonnie Ray's known movements.
It's my opinion that Rowland saw Bonnie Ray having his lunch in the SN while the assassin stood at the other end of the same floor.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 09:21:05 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Fergus O'Brien

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2023, 01:38:24 PM »
i agree logically it was williams hanging or leaning out of the snipers nest window at 12.15 or so . if he had arranged to meet jarmin and norman up there it might explain why he was leaning out the window , perhaps trying to catch sight of his friends .and as you correctly said about 5 minutes (give or take the odd minute ) before the shooting he took the elevator down one floor to the 5th floor and joined his pals who had only arrived shortly before him . given his lunch was where it was i have to believe he was in the snipers nest area for the bulk of his time on the 6th floor , which is problematic in terms of getting oswald in there .not impossible but difficult time wise .


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2023, 04:25:07 PM »
i agree logically it was williams hanging or leaning out of the snipers nest window at 12.15 or so . if he had arranged to meet jarmin and norman up there it might explain why he was leaning out the window , perhaps trying to catch sight of his friends .and as you correctly said about 5 minutes (give or take the odd minute ) before the shooting he took the elevator down one floor to the 5th floor and joined his pals who had only arrived shortly before him . given his lunch was where it was i have to believe he was in the snipers nest area for the bulk of his time on the 6th floor , which is problematic in terms of getting oswald in there .not impossible but difficult time wise .

I don't know why the WC narrative doesn't have Oswald as the man with the rifle seen by Rowland. He was going to take the shots from the wide open windows on the south-west end of the 6th floor [possibly a better position than the SN]. Williams was completely unaware of his presence. Williams decides to go down to the fifth floor so Oswald changes his mind and decides to take the shots from the SN.

This would explain what Rowland witnessed.
It would explain why BRW's lunch remains were found on the SN boxes.
There would be no need to have BRW sat behind a dirty, closed window for half an hour, with Oswald cowering silently in the SN.




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Re: Arnold Rowland
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2023, 04:25:07 PM »