Towner3 Fence Man Identity

[Charles Collins]

I see what you're saying, it looks more like a strap going across his body than a tie.

Yes, to me it does. And in Altgen’s photo, the strap is clearly seen (from Zapruder’s rear) in that same position.

[Royell Storing]

Yes, to me it does. And in Altgen’s photo, the strap is clearly seen (from Zapruder’s rear) in that same position.

    That strap on the Altgens Photo is running nowhere near the Throat/Adams Apple/Bow Tie area. It's a good visual aid demonstrating why it is referred to as a SHOULDER Strap. 

[Charles Collins]

    That strap on the Altgens Photo is running nowhere near the Throat/Adams Apple/Bow Tie area. It's a good visual aid demonstrating why it is referred to as a SHOULDER Strap.

LOL, and you can see all of that looking at Zapruder’s back?  The strap is on his left shoulder near the neck. The case is on his right side. This means that the strap runs across the body just like is shown in Towner3.

[Royell Storing]

LOL, and you can see all of that looking at Zapruder’s back?  The strap is on his left shoulder near the neck. The case is on his right side. This means that the strap runs across the body just like is shown in Towner3.

    Exactly! Directly across Zapurder's CHEST. Not across his Adams Apple/Bow Tie/Throat. Take your time and closely examine the Altgens Photo.

[Charles Collins]

    Exactly! Directly across Zapurder's CHEST. Not across his Adams Apple/Bow Tie/Throat. Take your time and closely examine the Altgens Photo.

It looks about right to me.

[Charles Collins]

     This is perfect. It does not fall across the Adams Apple, Throat, or in Zapruder's case Bow Tie. This is why it is called a SHOULDER STRAP.

It most certainly does. And the lack of clarity in Towner3, along with the angle, makes the bow tie impossible to distinguish. The other giveaway clue is his hat.

[Charles Collins]

Okay, his slide #7 seems to be taken in the general area of his #6. His #8 is a closeup of a MC officer with two other men somewhere in the parking area that I can’t figure out where exactly. Then #9 was taken around the top of the knoll steps. #9 has Sitzman in a well developed crowd.  So, maybe around 2-3 minutes after his #6. I just don’t know how long it took the crowd to develop.

I watched the video of the oral history by Skaggs and his wife. Sadly, he doesn’t even remember taking the #9 photo. So, he had nothing to say about it. But he did say that he didn’t stay very long in the parking area (where he took the #8 photo). Defining “very long” would be a wild guess (even if Skaggs himself had done so). I would think it took more than a few minutes for Skaggs to move from his positions at #6 & #7, across the plaza to the parking lot area, take #8 and then move to his position at #9. If that is officer Haygood in #9, perhaps his account might help with the timing.

I did glean some other interesting items from Skaggs’ account in his oral history interview. He said that he heard the first shot immediately after taking his photo of the camera car. He said that he took the photo, then turned around and was winding his camera when the first shot sounded. He thought it was within “just a few seconds” of that photo. I love it when we can tie the timing of the first shot to an event that can be pretty accurately timed. Mark Tyler’s animation shows Skaggs’ #5 being taken at 12:29:46.




A “few seconds” later than this is just about where there are several other items that happen that suggest a first shot. These include a very short stop/start of the Hughes film (so short that it is thought that it had to be inadvertent), practically simultaneous head turns, etc of most of the limo occupants, huge jerk and stop/start of the Dorman film, Officer Bakers account of where he was, Victoria Adams’ account, Howard Brennan’s account, Tina Towner’s account and the end of her film, and quite a few other accounts.

[James Hackerott]

I watched the video of the oral history by Skaggs and his wife. Sadly, he doesn’t even remember taking the #9 photo. So, he had nothing to say about it. But he did say that he didn’t stay very long in the parking area (where he took the #8 photo). Defining “very long” would be a wild guess (even if Skaggs himself had done so). I would think it took more than a few minutes for Skaggs to move from his positions at #6 & #7, across the plaza to the parking lot area, take #8 and then move to his position at #9. If that is officer Haygood in #9, perhaps his account might help with the timing.

I did glean some other interesting items from Skaggs’ account in his oral history interview. He said that he heard the first shot immediately after taking his photo of the camera car. He said that he took the photo, then turned around and was winding his camera when the first shot sounded. He thought it was within “just a few seconds” of that photo. I love it when we can tie the timing of the first shot to an event that can be pretty accurately timed. Mark Tyler’s animation shows Skaggs’ #5 being taken at 12:29:46.



A “few seconds” later than this is just about where there are several other items that happen that suggest a first shot. These include a very short stop/start of the Hughes film (so short that it is thought that it had to be inadvertent), practically simultaneous head turns, etc of most of the limo occupants, huge jerk and stop/start of the Dorman film, Officer Bakers account of where he was, Victoria Adams’ account, Howard Brennan’s account, Tina Towner’s account and the end of her film, and quite a few other accounts.

Thanks for bringing the Skaggs’ oral history to my attention; it only took me about 4 hours to watch the full 2hr video. The photo #8 of the motorcycle officer closeup I thought years ago was taken at the bridge. I wondered then if Skaggs climbed the wall to get into the parking area. But sometime ago I realized that photo was taken somewhere in the rail/parking area. Skaggs then could have just used the knoll steps and got to the parking area that way. In the oral history, Gary Mack did ask if Skaggs scaled a wall to get to that #8 position-to which Skaggs answered no. 

As far as Marilyn Sitzman’s time line for slide #9 there was no help, as you mentioned. Our next known view of Sitzman is in a Murray photo taken from somewhere near the south Elm storm drain before 12:41. Sitzman is on the patio just at the north side of her shared Zapruder pedestal while interviewed. Darnell is standing close by and appears to be listening to the interview, before or after he filmed the scene.