JFK: What the Doctors Saw

[Dan O'meara]

Your confused. I never said the top of the head wasn't blown out it was, but as my pics show there is a hole exactly where many of the witnesses place it on the upper rear of the head. The autopsy photos and x-rays were doctored there is too much eyewitness testimony the wounds did not match. My opinion they knew it was a conspiracy but lied to prevent a full scale war, which makes perfect sense under the circumstances.

Your confused. I never said the top of the head wasn't blown out it was

You seemed very confused when you posted that McLelland's picture was somehow similar to what was shown in the Z-film. It looks absolutely nothing like what is shown in the Z-film. They are two completely different head wounds. McLelland depicts a blowout in the back of JFK's head, the Z-film shows that the top of JFK's head was blown off and that there was no blowout at the back.
You seem to agree that the top of JFK's head was blown off but you don't seem to have noticed that witnesses like McLelland aren't pointing that out.
You seem confused.

but as my pics show there is a hole exactly where many of the witnesses place it on the upper rear of the head.

The pictures you posted show nothing of the sort. They show absolutely nothing. You have simply put a circle on a picture as if that somehow demonstrates something.



What, exactly, do you believe the above picture shows? It's too blurred to make out any detail. Here's a better version of the pic I posted elsewhere, can you still see the thing you think you see in the pic you posted?




The autopsy photos and x-rays were doctored there is too much eyewitness testimony the wounds did not match.

The key to understanding why some (not all) witnesses are describing a wound just at the back of JFK's head is revealed in an interview with Jim Jenkins. Below is a post from another thread. For anyone actually interested in this issue the interview is worth checking out.

It boils down to this - what the Parkland Doctors report seeing concerning the head wound is different from what we see in the Z-film.
This seems like an insurmountable issue, it's either one or the other.

I believe these two, seemingly contradictory, positions can actually be reconciled. The key is understanding the exact nature of JFK's head wound.

The above is an interview with Jim Jenkins. He was a student at the Medical Technology School, part of Bethesda Naval Hospital and assisted with the autopsy that took place at Bethesda.
At around the 30 min mark Jenkins is describing the wound to the skull. He uses a replica skull to describe an area where occipital bone and tissue were missing. There was no laceration to the scalp in this area just missing bone and tissue:

"The wound was here, approximately where my finger is [he places his finger on the back right of the skull, next to the occipital bone]...and it extended down here. It was about three and a half inches long...about two inches wide. That was where the missing bone was and the missing tissue was."

He then goes on to describe a much larger injury:

"Remember, all of this portion [of the skull] in this area was fractured to the saggital suture[he indicates nearly the whole right side/top of the skull]...but it wasn't gone, it was still being kept intact by the scalp. The scalp had rents and tears in it [he indicates a line running along the saggital suture on the crown of the skull]...it seemed like some of those tears in the scalp had been surgically connected, little connections to follow the fracture line in here [again he indicates the length of the saggital suture on the crown of the skull]...
When Dr. Humes took the wrappings off the head, there was a secondary wrapping on it that I think was a towel...as he was taking it off this area kind of gapped open [he indicates that the whole top right side of the skull from the saggital suture downwards opened up] but as soon as we separated it from the towel it went back together."

Jenkins is describing an injury in which the whole right upper side of JFK's head comes away but can be put back again. He goes on:

"Now, that's significant for the fact is you could actually...lay this skull open, you could actually take your hands and separate it [he makes a motion with his hand to indicate the side of the skull could be opened up like a small, hinged door]. So, that would have given you access to the brain."

This is the key point about JFK's head wound - it was possible to "lay this skull open", to open up the side of his head and then put it back again. Jenkins is describing the truly massive wound we see in the autopsy pics and the Z-film. Not a localised wound at the back of the head but something that takes up the majority of the upper right side of JFK's head.
And this is why the doctors at Parkland didn't appreciate the full extent of JFK's head wound. They may have saw it but none of them actually examined it as they were busy trying to save his life. What they saw was the side of his head put back in place by Jackie on the way to Parkland but there was no real structural integrity to it, as he was lying on his back the contents of his head oozed out of a gap in the wound towards the rear of his head. Almost everyone at Parkland saw the same thing, matter oozing from a big hole towards the back of JFK's head.
What they did not see was that the whole side of JFK's head could come away to reveal the truly massive wound seen in the autopsy pics and the Z-film.

No need for film alteration.
The Z-film shows the injury Jenkins describes.
The way Jenkins describes the injury allows us to understand why the Parkland doctors appeared to report something different from the photo/film record.

[Jarrett Smith]

Your confused. I never said the top of the head wasn't blown out it was

You seemed very confused when you posted that McLelland's picture was somehow similar to what was shown in the Z-film. It looks absolutely nothing like what is shown in the Z-film. They are two completely different head wounds. McLelland depicts a blowout in the back of JFK's head, the Z-film shows that the top of JFK's head was blown off and that there was no blowout at the back.
You seem to agree that the top of JFK's head was blown off but you don't seem to have noticed that witnesses like McLelland aren't pointing that out.
You seem confused.

but as my pics show there is a hole exactly where many of the witnesses place it on the upper rear of the head.

The pictures you posted show nothing of the sort. They show absolutely nothing. You have simply put a circle on a picture as if that somehow demonstrates something.



What, exactly, do you believe the above picture shows? It's too blurred to make out any detail. Here's a better version of the pic I posted elsewhere, can you still see the thing you think you see in the pic you posted?




The autopsy photos and x-rays were doctored there is too much eyewitness testimony the wounds did not match.

The key to understanding why some (not all) witnesses are describing a wound just at the back of JFK's head is revealed in an interview with Jim Jenkins. Below is a post from another thread. For anyone actually interested in this issue the interview is worth checking out.

It boils down to this - what the Parkland Doctors report seeing concerning the head wound is different from what we see in the Z-film.
This seems like an insurmountable issue, it's either one or the other.

I believe these two, seemingly contradictory, positions can actually be reconciled. The key is understanding the exact nature of JFK's head wound.

The above is an interview with Jim Jenkins. He was a student at the Medical Technology School, part of Bethesda Naval Hospital and assisted with the autopsy that took place at Bethesda.
At around the 30 min mark Jenkins is describing the wound to the skull. He uses a replica skull to describe an area where occipital bone and tissue were missing. There was no laceration to the scalp in this area just missing bone and tissue:

"The wound was here, approximately where my finger is [he places his finger on the back right of the skull, next to the occipital bone]...and it extended down here. It was about three and a half inches long...about two inches wide. That was where the missing bone was and the missing tissue was."

He then goes on to describe a much larger injury:

"Remember, all of this portion [of the skull] in this area was fractured to the saggital suture[he indicates nearly the whole right side/top of the skull]...but it wasn't gone, it was still being kept intact by the scalp. The scalp had rents and tears in it [he indicates a line running along the saggital suture on the crown of the skull]...it seemed like some of those tears in the scalp had been surgically connected, little connections to follow the fracture line in here [again he indicates the length of the saggital suture on the crown of the skull]...
When Dr. Humes took the wrappings off the head, there was a secondary wrapping on it that I think was a towel...as he was taking it off this area kind of gapped open [he indicates that the whole top right side of the skull from the saggital suture downwards opened up] but as soon as we separated it from the towel it went back together."

Jenkins is describing an injury in which the whole right upper side of JFK's head comes away but can be put back again. He goes on:

"Now, that's significant for the fact is you could actually...lay this skull open, you could actually take your hands and separate it [he makes a motion with his hand to indicate the side of the skull could be opened up like a small, hinged door]. So, that would have given you access to the brain."

This is the key point about JFK's head wound - it was possible to "lay this skull open", to open up the side of his head and then put it back again. Jenkins is describing the truly massive wound we see in the autopsy pics and the Z-film. Not a localised wound at the back of the head but something that takes up the majority of the upper right side of JFK's head.
And this is why the doctors at Parkland didn't appreciate the full extent of JFK's head wound. They may have saw it but none of them actually examined it as they were busy trying to save his life. What they saw was the side of his head put back in place by Jackie on the way to Parkland but there was no real structural integrity to it, as he was lying on his back the contents of his head oozed out of a gap in the wound towards the rear of his head. Almost everyone at Parkland saw the same thing, matter oozing from a big hole towards the back of JFK's head.
What they did not see was that the whole side of JFK's head could come away to reveal the truly massive wound seen in the autopsy pics and the Z-film.

No need for film alteration.
The Z-film shows the injury Jenkins describes.
The way Jenkins describes the injury allows us to understand why the Parkland doctors appeared to report something different from the photo/film record.

Thanks for that video it pretty much confirms what the parkland doctors saw. So the fatal shot was from the front and the autopsy doctors found the wound. Not really shocking I do think they were afraid of War thus the Cover Up.

[Dan O'meara]

Thanks for that video it pretty much confirms what the parkland doctors saw. So the fatal shot was from the front and the autopsy doctors found the wound. Not really shocking I do think they were afraid of War thus the Cover Up.

Thanks for that video it pretty much confirms what the parkland doctors saw

Which of the Parkland doctors saw a head wound that took up virtually the whole upper right side of JFK's skull, from just behind the front hairline to the back of his head?
A wound that could be opened and closed like a hinged door?

So the fatal shot was from the front

Then why, at the moment of impact, is JFK's first movement forward?



Not really shocking I do think they were afraid of War thus the Cover Up.

You don't think the cover up was because it wasn't the Russians?

[Jarrett Smith]

Dan O'meara link=topic=3851.msg152537#msg152537 date=1700293745]
Thanks for that video it pretty much confirms what the parkland doctors saw

Which of the Parkland doctors saw a head wound that took up virtually the whole upper right side of JFK's skull, from just behind the front hairline to the back of his head?
A wound that could be opened and closed like a hinged door?

Dr. Salyer

So the fatal shot was from the front

Then why, at the moment of impact, is JFK's first movement forward?

He was shot from behind, then front. Bang-Bang



Not really shocking I do think they were afraid of War thus the Cover Up.

You don't think the cover up was because it wasn't the Russians?


Not at first no

[Royell Storing]

  With regard to the "forward" head movement, you need to merely permit your eyes to absorb/examine the ENTIRE IMAGE. The gore is attracting/distracting your eyes. JFK's head has that "forward bob' due to Jackie Pulling DOWNWARD On His Arm/Wrist. It's easy to see if you'll get away from your macabre fixation. And don't feel bad, you're Not the only one on this Forum displaying this affliction.

[Dan O'meara]

  With regard to the "forward" head movement, you need to merely permit your eyes to absorb/examine the ENTIRE IMAGE. The gore is attracting/distracting your eyes. JFK's head has that "forward bob' due to Jackie Pulling DOWNWARD On His Arm/Wrist. It's easy to see if you'll get away from your macabre fixation. And don't feel bad, you're Not the only one on this Forum displaying this affliction.

 
You funny

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Here is what Dr. McClelland wrote the day of the assassination, about three hours after JFK was pronounced dead:

From the handwritten statement of Robt McClelland written Nov 22, 1963 at 4:45pm on the cause of death of JFK:

"At approximately 12:45pm on the above date I was called from the second floor of Parkland Hospital and went immediately to the Emergency Operating Room. When I arrived President Kennedy was being attended by Drs Malcolm Perry, Charles Baxter, James Carrico and Ronald Jones. The President was at that time commatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with afragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube and assisted respiration was started immediately by Dr Carrico on duty in the EOR when the President arrived. Drs Perry, Baxter and I then performed a tacheotomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury and Drs Jones and Paul Peters inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoracis secondary to the tracheomediastinal injury. In spite of this, at 12:55 he was pronounced dead by Dr Kemp Clark the neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery who arrived immediately after I did. The cause of death was due to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left (sic) temple. He was pronounced dead after external cardiac massage failed and ECG activity was gone.

Yes, the cause of death was: "[D]ue to massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the left temple." Yes, left temple(?). Not the back of the head.

Later (January '64), in the Texas State Journal of Medicine, McClelland told the publication this: "[T]he cause of death was the massive head and brain injuries from a gunshot wound of the right side of the head."

Here he says right side. Nowhere in either account did he mention the back/rear of the head.

Several of the other doctors were interviewed by the publication and gave accounts of what they saw. This was *before* they testified. To be blunt, they were very confused.

You can read them here: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth599863/m1/102

Shorter: the accounts of the ER doctors on the location of the head wound are, for me, very questionable.

[Steve Barber]

  I prefer the Professional Observations of 7 Parkland Dr's that saw the head/body of JFK 10-15 minutes after the Kill Shot vs Layman's Opinions that are made decades after-the-fact.

Of course you do!  Meanwhile, you ignore what Mrs., Kennedy told Theodore White one week after the assassination-in gory detail-how she "Kept trying to hold the top of his head down. Maybe I could keep it ("his brains") in". By the time the doctors saw the head wound, it had been inadvertantly altered by Mrs. Kennedy who obvilously put the large skull flap hanging from the top of his head inside-out in front of her husband's ear. extending over the temple.  Once she did this, the entire head wound wasn't seen by anyone else until the body reached Washington D.C.