Oswald's Escape Route Time Trial

[John Mytton]

well i think that you highlight very well indeed the great difficulty one has in attempting any sort of intelligent conversation with an LN mentality .

let us just re cap  .

i have stated that YOUR warren commission and its FBI experts  , told us that the fibers allegedly from Oswalds brown shirt were found on the rifle in evidence , and that they were FRESH .and we know the official version of events and the LN stance , which is that Oswald wore the brown short in work and left the fibers on the rifle at 12.30 having fired the shots .i have informed you here of the FACT (and yes im certain you were already aware of it ) that interrogation notes state that Oswald told them that he CHANGED his shirt and slacks 1t 1pm while at his rooming house .and that ONLY there and then did he put on the brown shirt that HE WAS ARRESTED IN .

if the above is indeed TRUE well then the following must also be true .

1/ Oswald wore a red shirt in work and NOT the brown shirt he was Later arrested in .
2/ Oswald ONLY put on that brown shirt at 1pm at his rooming house , some 30 minutes after the assassination .
3/ that FRESH fibers from the brown shirt were found on the rifle by the FBI , when according to interrogation notes Oswald NEVER wore that shirt that day in work .

and the best you have is to first offer that oswald may have left FRESH fibers on the rifle some weeks or months prior , which would not be FRESH would they ? .

then you give us your bugliosi impression and tell us that FRESH FIBERS that should not be on the rifle dont matter , that we should not bother our little heads thinking about that at all . JUST FORGET ABOUT IT , IGNORE IT ,and move on ,  because all the evidence proved oswald did it . oh and we should all just take YOUR word that anything at all was indeed proven . lol .

and the best you have is to first offer that oswald may have left FRESH fibers on the rifle some weeks or months prior , which would not be FRESH would they ? .

It might be best for you to read the relevant FBI testimony before you continue to make yourself look like a complete Dummkopf!

Mr. EISENBERG. In other words, you concluded they were fresh--well, you said you thought they were fresh, Mr. Stombaugh, and I don't quite understand now whether you seem to be backing off a little from that?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. No; I am not trying to do that. I am trying to avoid a specific time element, since there are other factors which may enter couldn't--this is something that I won't even attempt to do, just say this was on here for 1 hour or 10 minutes, something like that.
But I would say these fibers were put on there in the recent past for this reason. If they had been put on there say 3, 4, 5 weeks or so ago, and the gun used every day, these fibers would have come off. Am I making myself a little more clear?

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you go into that in a little more detail, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes. Mainly because the fibers or the shirt is composed of point one, cotton, and point two, three basic colors. I found all three colors together on the gun. Now if the shirt had been composed of 10 or 15 different colors and types of fibers and I only had found 3 of them, then I would feel that I had not found enough, but I found fibers on the gun which I could match with the fibers composing this shirt., so I feel the fibers could easily have come from the shirt.



Conclusion,

The "fresh" fibers could be put on the rifle 3, 4 or 5 weeks ago.
We know that Oswald did not use the rifle daily.
We know that the three types of fibers on the rifle matched the same three types of fibers on Oswald's arrest shirt, therefore the shirt was owned by Oswald.
The three types of fibers on the rifle could have come from another piece of material being composed of the same three types of fibers.
Bugliosi in Reclaiming History informs the reader that "The FBI laboratory found that the colors, and even the twist of the fibers, perfectly matched those on the shirt Oswald was wearing at the time of his arrest. Though such fibers could theoretically have come from another identical shirt, the prohibitive probability is that they came from Oswald’s shirt." 

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Fergus, it might be best for you to read the relevant FBI testimony before you continue to make yourself look like a complete Dummkopf!

Mr. EISENBERG. In other words, you concluded they were fresh--well, you said you thought they were fresh, Mr. Stombaugh, and I don't quite understand now whether you seem to be backing off a little from that?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. No; I am not trying to do that. I am trying to avoid a specific time element, since there are other factors which may enter couldn't--this is something that I won't even attempt to do, just say this was on here for 1 hour or 10 minutes, something like that.
But I would say these fibers were put on there in the recent past for this reason. If they had been put on there say 3, 4, 5 weeks or so ago, and the gun used every day, these fibers would have come off. Am I making myself a little more clear?

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you go into that in a little more detail, Mr. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes. Mainly because the fibers or the shirt is composed of point one, cotton, and point two, three basic colors. I found all three colors together on the gun. Now if the shirt had been composed of 10 or 15 different colors and types of fibers and I only had found 3 of them, then I would feel that I had not found enough, but I found fibers on the gun which I could match with the fibers composing this shirt., so I feel the fibers could easily have come from the shirt.



Conclusion,

The "fresh" fibers could be put on the rifle 3, 4 or 5 weeks ago.
We know that Oswald did not use the rifle daily.
We know that the three types of fibers on the rifle matched the same three types of fibers on Oswald's arrest shirt, therefore the shirt was owned by Oswald.
The three types of fibers on the rifle could have come from another piece of material being composed of the same three types of fibers.
Bugliosi in Reclaiming History informs the reader that "The FBI laboratory found that the colors, and even the twist of the fibers, perfectly matched those on the shirt Oswald was wearing at the time of his arrest. Though such fibers could theoretically have come from another identical shirt, the prohibitive probability is that they came from Oswald’s shirt." 

JohnM

Though such fibers could theoretically have come from another identical shirt, the prohibitive probability is that they came from Oswald’s shirt.

Translation: Let's disregard the fact that those fibers could have come from another source and let's just assume they came from Oswald's shirt because that's the most convenient option. 

[John Mytton]

Though such fibers could theoretically have come from another identical shirt, the prohibitive probability is that they came from Oswald’s shirt.

Translation: Let's disregard the fact that those fibers could have come from another source and let's just assume they came from Oswald's shirt because that's the most convenient option. 

Another important consideration is coincidence. When fibers that match the clothing fibers of the suspect are found on the clothing of a victim, two conclusions may be drawn: The fibers originated from the suspect, or the fibers originated from another fabric source that not only was composed of fibers of the exact type and color, but was also in a position to contribute those fibers through primary or secondary contact. The likelihood of encountering identical fibers from the environment of a homicide victim (i.e., from his or her residence or friends) is extremely remote.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/july2000/deedric3.htm#Fiber%20Evidence:%20Assigning%20Significance

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Another important consideration is coincidence. When fibers that match the clothing fibers of the suspect are found on the clothing of a victim, two conclusions may be drawn: The fibers originated from the suspect, or the fibers originated from another fabric source that not only was composed of fibers of the exact type and color, but was also in a position to contribute those fibers through primary or secondary contact. The likelihood of encountering identical fibers from the environment of a homicide victim (i.e., from his or her residence or friends) is extremely remote.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/july2000/deedric3.htm#Fiber%20Evidence:%20Assigning%20Significance

JohnM

More selfserving BS! Hilarious....

When fibers that match the clothing fibers of the suspect are found on the clothing of a victim, two conclusions may be drawn: The fibers originated from the suspect, or the fibers originated from another fabric source that not only was composed of fibers of the exact type and color, but was also in a position to contribute those fibers through primary or secondary contact.

Stombaugh claiming that the fibers found on the rifle "matched" those of Oswald's shirt isn't evidence that the fibers did actually come from Oswald's shirt. It's an unchallenged opinion of a biased prosecutorial expert.

Even worse, there is no evidence that Oswald ever was in a position to "contribute those fibers". That he was, is just another massive assumption based on other assumptions.

The bottom line is a simple one; as long as it can not be ruled out that the fibers came from another source, it can't be conclusively "concluded" that the fibers came from Oswald's shirts.

So, let's play this little game for a moment;

First it has to be assumed that a rifle that Marina Oswald may have seen in Ruth Paine's garage in late September 1963 belonged to Oswald
Then it has to be assumed that it was the MC rifle C2766 that was found at the TSBD
It also has to be assumed that Oswald had access to that particular rifle, during the nearly three months prior to November 23, and did dismantle the rifle without being seen or noticed by anybody in Ruth Paine's tiny house.
Then it has to be assumed that Oswald managed to bring that broken down rifle into the TSBD without anybody seeing it (btw if the fibers were already on the rifle before November 22, how did they manage to remain stuck to the rifle when it was allegedly being transported in a broken down condition in a paper bag?)
And then it has to be assumed that Oswald did wear the arrest shirt while working at the TSBD on Friday morning or did ever wear that shirt during one of his trips to Irving.

There isn't a shred of evidence for any of this

The possibility that all the above things happened without anybody seeing anything is extremely remote     

But I have to give you credit for at least trying.......

[John Mytton]

More selfserving BS! Hilarious....

When fibers that match the clothing fibers of the suspect are found on the clothing of a victim, two conclusions may be drawn: The fibers originated from the suspect, or the fibers originated from another fabric source that not only was composed of fibers of the exact type and color, but was also in a position to contribute those fibers through primary or secondary contact.

Stombaugh claiming that the fibers found on the rifle "matched" those of Oswald's shirt isn't evidence that the fibers did actually come from Oswald's shirt. It's an unchallenged opinion of a biased prosecutorial expert.

Even worse, there is no evidence that Oswald ever was in a position to "contribute those fibers". That he was, is just another massive assumption based on other assumptions.

The bottom line is a simple one; as long as it can not be ruled out that the fibers came from another source, it can't be conclusively "concluded" that the fibers came from Oswald's shirts.

So, let's play this little game for a moment;

First it has to be assumed that a rifle that Marina Oswald may have seen in Ruth Paine's garage in late September 1963 belonged to Oswald
Then it has to be assumed that it was the MC rifle C2766 that was found at the TSBD
It also has to be assumed that Oswald had access to that particular rifle, during the nearly three months prior to November 23, and did dismantle the rifle without being seen or noticed by anybody in Ruth Paine's tiny house.
Then it has to be assumed that Oswald managed to bring that broken down rifle into the TSBD without anybody seeing it (btw if the fibers were already on the rifle before November 22, how did they manage to remain stuck to the rifle when it was allegedly being transported in a broken down condition in a paper bag?)
And then it has to be assumed that Oswald did wear the arrest shirt while working at the TSBD on Friday morning or did ever wear that shirt during one of his trips to Irving.

There isn't a shred of evidence for any of this

The possibility that all the above things happened without anybody seeing anything is extremely remote     

But I have to give you credit for at least trying.......

Thank you for confirming that there is indeed a Mountain of Evidence.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Thank you for confirming that there is indeed a Mountain of Evidence.

JohnM

Disappointing....

but thank you for showing us so clearly that you consider speculative assumptions to be evidence.... 

And your inability to counter any of the points I have raised is duly noted as well.

[John Mytton]

Disappointing....

but thank you for showing us so clearly that you consider speculative assumptions to be evidence.... 

And your inability to counter any of the points I have raised is duly noted as well.

When you can prove to me that your tired, well worn "speculative assumptions" are not evidence then I may consider your ideas but until then, the Mountain of Evidence is impervious to your feeble attempts of refutation. Sorry about that!

JohnM

[Steve M. Galbraith]

When you can prove to me that your tired, well worn "speculative assumptions" are not evidence then I may consider your ideas but until then, the Mountain of Evidence is impervious to your feeble attempts of refutation. Sorry about that!

JohnM

"It's possible the fibers were planted. It's possible the backyard photos were faked. It's possible the prints were planted. It's possible the money order is fake. It's possible the envelope was faked. It's possible the Tippit eyewitnesses were wrong. It's possible the shells were switched. It's possible the revolver was planted. It's possible..it's possible...it's possible...."

At some point one would think a reasonably intelligent person - a supposed non-conspiracist at that - would take a step back, look at this and ask himself, "Is it really possible to fake all of this?"