From Behind the Fence

[Charles Collins]

    I understand your being interested in how different people perceived their roles as events continued evolving around them, but the focal point of Our discussion is WADE. Not DC bureaucrats such as O'Donnell. Wade being informed via telephone as to the specifics of the SS Agents commandeering the JFK Body would have taken time amidst all of the ongoing tumult at both ends of the phone line. (Not to mention the general off/on phone service inside Dallas on 11/22/63.)

So I went out and got hold of Dr. Burkley and General McHugh, and one of the agents, and Andy Berger, as I recall, and told them to get a casket, to bring it back, and Dr. Burkley would have the doctors prepare the body for removal, and that we would proceed to the airport and go to Washington.
This was done very rapidly, as I recollect. It seems to me it wasn't more than half an hour that they arrived with the casket. I remember just before they arrived I got Dave Powers and said there was a little room in the back that we ought to just take Mrs. Kennedy under some subterfuge, and talk to her in the room while we brought the casket in, because I thought that might be the final blow. And we did, and--but she knew what was going on. She came out and said, "No, I want to watch it all." And she stood in the doorway, and thanked us for our attempt at being compassionate.
And then they took it in, and put the body in the casket.
We were then all prepared to go. The agents told me the ambulance was ready, and they were prepared to move.
We--the casket was brought out about halfway, and a gentleman arrived who said that we would not be allowed to remove the body from the hospital until the necessary papers had been signed.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know who he was?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I don't recollect who he was. I think he was---maybe from the coroner's office. My assumption is he would be.
But he took this position. We asked--I don't recollect who transmitted the message that they speed this up as much as possible, and give us some idea how long it took to accomplish this. And they went out into this other little room where there were some telephones, and proceeded to call whoever it was necessary to call to get this permission.
We waited about 10 or 15 minutes, and Dr. Burkley and General McHugh were in the room, and Mr. O'Brien at some time. I went out again and asked them if they had an answer, and nobody seemed to be able to answer the question as to how long it might take, and whether it was a week or an hour.
So I was getting more concerned about Mrs. Kennedy's state all the time although she appeared composed, as she had from the beginning.
Then a gentleman did arrive who has later been identified for me as a Judge Brown, who was on the telephone calling someone. It had been my assumption that upon his arrival that he had the power to permit us to depart. Dr. Burkley was talking to him in a very agitated manner. And the gentleman was very calm and cool and collected. If my recollection is clear, he said something to the effect that as of now this was just a homicide case, and there were certain things that had to be carried out, one of which I interpreted as an autopsy.
Mr. SPECTER. Who was it, Mr. O'Donnell, if you recall, who said this was just another homicide case?
Mr. O'DONNELL. My feeling is it was Brown, but I really would not be--in the excitement of the moment, the discussion of the autopsy, the signing of a certificate from the hospital, and the treatment of this as a homicide case, I would not want to be unfair and misinterpret who might have said it.
My recollection is it was indicated to us that the President is dead, the hospital has to perform certain functions, and the law must be met, no matter who it is, at this moment. In my own mind, when they said autopsy, I realized we were talking not about hours, but perhaps even days, which was an impossible situation for Mrs. Kennedy.
I talked to Dr. Burkley, and had him suggest to them that they could have a doctor come with us, he could accompany the body at all times, and that we would bring him immediately to the Naval Hospital, and that they could perform whatever necessary chores, and there would be no separation physically from the hospital and the performance of their autopsy.
They refused to consider this.
I in my own mind determined that we had no alternative but to just depart. So I went back in the room. I told Mr. O'Brien, and whoever else was assembled there, that we were going to leave. I notified the Secret Service and General McHugh, and told them to get ready to depart. We went in and took the body out. Mrs. Kennedy stood right behind it, I think totally unaware of the problems that were then existing, so perhaps confused as to the speed with which we were attempting to depart.
We pushed the casket out through the hall. This first gentleman that had come in, who, I presume, was from the coroner's office, shouted very loudly, "You can't do that, you can't leave here now." Nobody paid any attention to him. We pushed out through another set of swinging doors. I remember a Catholic priest was between this and the doorway, and was praying. It was most disconcerting because we were concerned at all times that some moment they would say stop, and I hated to think what might happen to Mrs. Kennedy if she had to go back and go through this all over again. So we brushed them all aside and came out the same way we had come in, through the same doors.
There was an ambulance there. Andy Berger was seated in the driver's seat. Several agents were there. The body was put into the ambulance, Mrs. Kennedy got in with it. We climbed into a car alongside of it, and we took off for the airport. I told the agents if they would signal ahead, that there were agents at the airfield, and that as soon as we came through the gate, they were to close the gate and let nobody else in.

[Royell Storing]

  Again, no Specific mention of WADE. Wade himself during his WC Testimony waffled around whether he or someone inside his office got involved. And I do adhere to Sworn Testimony vs stories/recollections.

[Charles Collins]

I find this interesting (from an October 17, 1967 interview for the JFK Library):

McHugh:  Did any of the doctors there attempt to begin postmortem procedures?

Burkley:  Of course not. First place, postmortem would have to be either authorized by a member of the family or ordered by the court.

McHugh:  This was not normally a procedure that they would automatically perform?

Burkley:  In no way.

[Royell Storing]

I find this interesting (from an October 17, 1967 interview for the JFK Library):

McHugh:  Did any of the doctors there attempt to begin postmortem procedures?

Burkley:  Of course not. First place, postmortem would have to be either authorized by a member of the family or ordered by the court.

McHugh:  This was not normally a procedure that they would automatically perform?

Burkley:  In no way.

     I do Not know specifically what "postmortem procedures" entails.

[John Mytton]

     I do Not know specifically what "postmortem procedures" entails.

Post-mortem
A post-mortem examination, also known as an autopsy, is the examination of a body after death. The aim of a post-mortem is to determine the cause of death.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/post-mortem/

A post mortem is a detailed examination of the body by a doctor who has special training and experience in this field, called a forensic pathologist. During the post-mortem examination, a specialist forensic pathologist examines the deceased person to determine the presence, nature and extent of any disease or damage.
https://coroners.nsw.gov.au/the-coronial-process/post-mortem.html#:~:text=A%20post%20mortem%20is%20a,of%20any%20disease%20or%20damage.

JohnM

[Charles Collins]

     I do Not know specifically what "postmortem procedures" entails.

Postmortem: 5. Medicine/Medical. a postmortem examination; autopsy



My initial response regarding the encounter was to your question as to why no one was prosecuted. Here’s another excerpt from Manchester’s book regarding some of the aftermath:


Ward himself departed to complete a batch of official forms with his registrar. In his precinct log he docketed the inquest he had never held as No. 210; “Burial-Transit No. 7992,” authorizing “the removal of John F. Kennedy, male, white,” was belatedly drawn up and sent, for some reason, to Oneal’s, Inc.; Kemp Clark’s death certificate turned out to be inadequate under state statutes, so Ward signed another. Accuracy was not a forte of official Dallas that afternoon. On the new document—the deceased’s “usual occupation” was given as “President of the U.S.”—Kennedy’s Washington address was erroneously recorded as 600, not 1600, Pennsylvania Avenue. The transit permit incorrectly listed his age as forty-four. The Dallas Police Department completed a homicide report later in the day and it, too, was imprecise, stating that headquarters had received word of the shooting at 5:10 P.M. With that the local rites were over. Ceremonial homage had been paid to the letter of the law.



And, according to Manchester, the departure of the vehicle carrying JFK’s body away from Parkland Hospital was 2:08 pm local time.

[Anthony Dyle]

Do you believe Sitzman's story about a young black couple sitting to her right, behind a wall, near a bench?
The nearest witnesses to the picket fence, according to her, ran back there after the shooting, immeadiatly.  Fleeing to safety into the carpark. And Bowers missed it or at least could not explain it properly.
I believe her. The couple, the smash of the coke bottle that distracted her from the horror she just witnessed in the limo and where she saw them run to.  They dissapeared and Sitzman wanted to see where they went.  Bowers could not explain it because a parade on Elm Street that he just could not see did not justify his full attention.

Also.
"I could see the back of the fence" and "One man dissapeared behind the fence".
Your back, my behind.

[Zeon Mason]

A man was seen by Bowers standing on the west  side of the fence, “in line” with the Triple U bridge , for some minutes? Preceding the JFK limo entering Dealey plaza?

Then this man disappeared from Bowers LOS just moments before JFK limo comes down Elm st ?

Except for a gap at corner of the fence by the steps, the  GK fence is continuous and connects to the bridge abutment. So if the man was in line” with Bowers view from tower to the Triple U, would require the man to JUMP OVER the fence (or the abutment )  to get to opposite side ( east side) of the fence to then be out of LOS of Bowers.

Seems improbable the man could jump over the fence and Bowers would not see that.

The other options for the mystery man:

1. Got into a car parked by the fence
2. Sat on the ground between the west side of the fence and a car that obscured Bowers LOS  from the tower.
3. Walked some 100 ft distance from the “in line” area of fence at the abutment going north along west side of the fence till he got to the gap by steps , went thru this gap and then went north or south where he would be obscured by opposite side of fence or the GK pergola structure.

4. Got into the far drain sewer where he could shoot from ground level thru the lower portion of the wood fence, at the JFK limo with a LOS to JFKs head.

If 1 or 2, why was the man not seen again by Bowers, because it’s seems odd the man would not have either stood up or gotten back out of the car to take a look over the fence at the JFK limo and probably still be looking on post shots.

If 3, how probable Bowers could miss seeing the man walking some 100 ft along West side of the fence?

If 4: he was  a shooter, and he used  the far storm drain sewer , which is at the junction of GK wood fence and Triple U abutment,, which just happens to be “in line” from Bowers perspective to the Triple U bridge, then he could have exited at the other end of the drain and be out of LOS of Bowers.

Option 4: The man for some reason was not interested in watching the JFK limo and he remained in his car , then upon hearing shots fired , started up his car which caused a plume of smoke that was seen by some witnesses who mistook the coincidental timing with shots fired as residue from a rifle just fired.

Bowers , however, did not see any smoke on the west side of the fence.

This might be possible if the car in question , was parked with the tail pipe facing the fence? Hence the smoke blew thru the lower portion of the fence before it “plumed “ on the opposite east side of fence hence Bowers view obscured by fence AND foliage of tree?