When Was JBC Hit?

[Zeon Mason]

Wow which one of the 5 theories to choose  from 🤔

1. WC standard : 3 shots from the solitary gunman ( Oswald )using the MC rifle from the SE window 6th floor TSBD  , 1st shot  Z160-170 was a missed shot fired (before Betzner 186 photo) which shot was not heard by Betzner or Willis  2nd shot fired approx at Z224 , the SBT shot, a bullet that went thru 2 bodies , thru flesh and between ribs and thru wrist bone , and was CE 399 , a bullet so marginally deformed that it seems to defy physics.

2. WC (Jack variation)There were only 2 shots fired  from a solitary gunman (Oswald?) using the MC rifle,  1st one at Z224 , and 2nd one at Z313 and that vast majority of witness  that heard 3 shots  must be mistaken.

3. WC (Andrew variation) : 3 shots fired from the solitary gunman (Oswald )using the MC rifle , 1st shot at Z195-200 (thru at least some minimal tree foliage) that hit only JFK. 2nd shot somewhere around Z270 that hit only JC. 3rd shot at Z313 that hit JFK.

4. WC/CT (Dan version) 3 shots fired by solitary gunman ( NOT Oswald however) , from TSBD, using the MC rifle? 1st shot at Z224 hits JFK and JC as per the SBT. 2nd shot is Z313. 3rd shot is about 2 secs later which was just a final unaimed shot ( which hit the curb near Tague?)
 
5. CT (Zeon version) : 4 shots total were fired. 3 loud shots from one gunman in TSBD using a semi auto rifle , 1 suppressed shot by a 2nd gunman in Daltex bldg.
1st shot at Z160-170 was the suppressed shot by Daltex gunman that missed just past JFKs right shoulder. Only a few persons heard this shot . Willis girl slowed and then stopped by Z195 in response to hearing that shot. Amos Euins may have heard that shot also, explaining why he heard 4 shots.
2nd  (1st loud shot heard ) was at Z224 that hit both JFK and JC . That bullet was a pointed bullet found on the stretcher, which had to be replaced with CE399.
3rd (2nd loud shot heard ) shot was between Z224 and Z313 at about Z270 that went slightly high and hit the curb near Tague. That bullet left trace metallic element in the curb that were different than  an MC bullet
4th (3rd loud shot heard) was 313
 
Note: the 3 loud shots were fired in 4.8 seconds with the last 2 just slightly closer together , which matches Harold Normans boom click click 3 shot spacing which he completes in about 4 secs ( in video recordings)  The “click click” could be sound of the shells bouncing on the floor.

[Jerry Organ]

Wow which one of the 5 theories to choose  from 🤔

1. WC standard : 3 shots from the solitary gunman ( Oswald )using the MC rifle from the SE window 6th floor TSBD  , 1st shot  Z160-170 was a missed shot fired (before Betzner 186 photo) which shot was not heard by Betzner or Willis  2nd shot fired approx at Z224 , the SBT shot, a bullet that went thru 2 bodies , thru flesh and between ribs and thru wrist bone , and was CE 399 , a bullet so marginally deformed that it seems to defy physics.

Betzner was a two-shot witness, only sure of the shot he heard while winding his camera and the head shot. Since his camera is still being lowered as he goes out of frame in Z207, he has yet to begin to wind his camera, so the shot he heard while winding his camera is the Z220s SBT shot. I don't know why you believe Phil Willis didn't heard a shot fired before his Z202 still photo. He told the Commission that the first shot caused Mrs. Kennedy to look from his side of the street to the opposite (she begins to turn her head rightward about Z172).

    "Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; except this one thing might be worthy of mention.
     When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving and looking
     straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and facing more to
     my side of the street. When the first shot was fired, her head seemed to
     just snap in that direction, and he more or less faced the other side of the
     street and leaned forward, which caused me to wonder, although I could
     not see anything positively. It did cause me to wonder."

Yes, Willis said the shot caused him to snap his shutter and that his No.5 slide was simultaneous with the first shot, but he was a salesman by trade and was marketing a commercial set of fhis slides taken that day. In 1968, he said "I cocked my camera for another picture and this loud shot went off" before saying "the reflex from the shot caused me to take one of these pictures".

2. WC (Jack variation)There were only 2 shots fired  from a solitary gunman (Oswald?) using the MC rifle,  1st one at Z224 , and 2nd one at Z313 and that vast majority of witness  that heard 3 shots  must be mistaken.

3. WC (Andrew variation) : 3 shots fired from the solitary gunman (Oswald )using the MC rifle , 1st shot at Z195-200 (thru at least some minimal tree foliage) that hit only JFK. 2nd shot somewhere around Z270 that hit only JC. 3rd shot at Z313 that hit JFK.

Mason believes the neck transit autopsy finding. His first shot didn't hit only JFK. It went on to scoot by Connally's left torso and hit his left thigh (Connally, per Mason, didn't feel anything).

4. WC/CT (Dan version) 3 shots fired by solitary gunman ( NOT Oswald however) , from TSBD, using the MC rifle? 1st shot at Z224 hits JFK and JC as per the SBT. 2nd shot is Z313. 3rd shot is about 2 secs later which was just a final unaimed shot ( which hit the curb near Tague?)
 
5. CT (Zeon version) : 4 shots total were fired. 3 loud shots from one gunman in TSBD using a semi auto rifle , 1 suppressed shot by a 2nd gunman in Daltex bldg.
1st shot at Z160-170 was the suppressed shot by Daltex gunman that missed just past JFKs right shoulder. Only a few persons heard this shot . Willis girl slowed and then stopped by Z195 in response to hearing that shot. Amos Euins may have heard that shot also, explaining why he heard 4 shots.
2nd  (1st loud shot heard ) was at Z224 that hit both JFK and JC . That bullet was a pointed bullet found on the stretcher, which had to be replaced with CE399.
3rd (2nd loud shot heard ) shot was between Z224 and Z313 at about Z270 that went slightly high and hit the curb near Tague. That bullet left trace metallic element in the curb that were different than  an MC bullet
4th (3rd loud shot heard) was 313
 
Note: the 3 loud shots were fired in 4.8 seconds with the last 2 just slightly closer together , which matches Harold Normans boom click click 3 shot spacing which he completes in about 4 secs ( in video recordings)  The “click click” could be sound of the shells bouncing on the floor.

[Andrew Mason]

We can see him running between cars in the Nix film. It takes him quite a while because the cars are moving and he has to outrun them. We cannot see him leave the running board in the zfilm. It is quite consistent with the known evidence that he left the QM within a second after Altgens #6, which was taken at z254-255.

"Quite awhile," are you joking, No, Hill only takes 4 to 5 steps and he then grabs the back of the Limo. He does not exit the SS car until around Z310. Sorry but it is the harsh reality of it. Maybe before you came up with this odd theory with Hill you should have done a little more homework.

"quite a while" is 3-4 seconds. He has to step off the running board and get his feet running to keep pace with the QM and then sprint the 15 feet from the running board position to the back of the limo.  But the cars are moving at about 12 mph or 18 feet per second.  From z280 or so appear to slow down to about 12 feet per second from z280 to z320.

So to reach the limo in one second, which is about what you are suggesting, Hill would have to run at an average speed of 27-33 feet per second. That is the speed of an Olympic sprinter running the 100 yard dash in 10 seconds. And sprinters don't do it wearing suits and dress shoes and don't do it leaping off moving cars.

In the Nix film we cannot see Clint Hill leave the running board. He is first seen beside the front part of the QM while JFK is still upright, so it is before the head shot:


At this point he has already jumped off and heading toward the limo so he is well into his run. It is simply not possible that he leapt off at z310.

He turns within a few frames after z193 which is hard to see because of the blur but is apparent by z198.

No, not blurry at all. At Z206 he is still looking left and waving to the crowd. At Z207 he looks straight ahead and goes behind the sign.

The blur is between z193 and z198. JFK in z198 has already turned quite a bit forward. You can see his right ear and can no longer see the left side of his face:


There is not much difference between z198 and z207:

You can also see Jackie's head turn from looking at the crowd on the right at z187 to looking directly at JFK before z207:

[Zeon Mason]

Where in that Z195-z207 sequence of frames does JFK get hit in Andrews scenario?

Should there not be some forward motion of the body if hit in the back by a 2000ft/sec 6.5 mm bullet?

I’m not certain though depending the path of the bullet  thru the back and exiting the throat without striking any bone, perhaps there was less transfer of momentum than if the bullet had hit some bone and gone they the cavity.

[Andrew Mason]

Where in that Z195-z207 sequence of frames does JFK get hit in Andrews scenario?

Should there not be some forward motion of the body if hit in the back by a 2000ft/sec 6.5 mm bullet?

Whether the body moves depends on many factors. When a bullet passes completely through tissue like it did with the neck bullet, momentum transferred to the body is less the higher the bullet speed. That is because the resistance force is the same regardless of bullet speed so the impulse to the body (impulse =Force x time = momentum transfer) is proportional to the transit time.

Recoil speed also depends on the mass of the target, including the mass to which the target is connected. In JFK’s case that was the entire upper body because of the very rigid back brace that he was wearing. That brace also resists forward motion of the torso, limiting how far the bullet momentum will move the torso

So if the 10 gram bullet lost 800 fps in passing through JFK (from 2000 to 1200 fps) - a loss of 244 m/s - the momentum imparted to the body would be 2.4 kg m/s. That would cause a 1 kg mass to move at a speed of 2.4 m/s. But JFK’s upper body would weigh about 60% of his 75kg body weight or 45 kg. So the movement would be about 2.4/45 or about 5 cm per second. So in a single frame (1/18.3 of a second) the movement would be a bit less than 3 mm. That might be seen over several frames.  But if he was hit around z193, as I suggest the evidence shows, the subsequent frames are too blurry to see that and then he passes behind the sign.  So it is not surprising that we don’t see any clear movement of JFK from the neck bullet.

[Dan O'meara]

Where in that Z195-z207 sequence of frames does JFK get hit in Andrews scenario?

Should there not be some forward motion of the body if hit in the back by a 2000ft/sec 6.5 mm bullet?

I’m not certain though depending the path of the bullet  thru the back and exiting the throat without striking any bone, perhaps there was less transfer of momentum than if the bullet had hit some bone and gone they the cavity.

In Andrew's scenario JFK is shot at z193, through the oak tree, and he carries on smiling and waving.

This is not a joke or an exaggeration.

It must also be noted that, in Andrew's demented theory, at the same time JBC is hit in the leg by a bullet that hits the bone in his leg....and he doesn't notice it.
According to Andrew's demented theory JFK doesn't realise he's been shot and neither does JBC.

[Dan O'meara]

Wow which one of the 5 theories to choose  from 🤔

1. WC standard : 3 shots from the solitary gunman ( Oswald )using the MC rifle from the SE window 6th floor TSBD  , 1st shot  Z160-170 was a missed shot fired (before Betzner 186 photo) which shot was not heard by Betzner or Willis  2nd shot fired approx at Z224 , the SBT shot, a bullet that went thru 2 bodies , thru flesh and between ribs and thru wrist bone , and was CE 399 , a bullet so marginally deformed that it seems to defy physics.

2. WC (Jack variation)There were only 2 shots fired  from a solitary gunman (Oswald?) using the MC rifle,  1st one at Z224 , and 2nd one at Z313 and that vast majority of witness  that heard 3 shots  must be mistaken.

3. WC (Andrew variation) : 3 shots fired from the solitary gunman (Oswald )using the MC rifle , 1st shot at Z195-200 (thru at least some minimal tree foliage) that hit only JFK. 2nd shot somewhere around Z270 that hit only JC. 3rd shot at Z313 that hit JFK.

4. WC/CT (Dan version) 3 shots fired by solitary gunman ( NOT Oswald however) , from TSBD, using the MC rifle? 1st shot at Z224 hits JFK and JC as per the SBT. 2nd shot is Z313. 3rd shot is about 2 secs later which was just a final unaimed shot ( which hit the curb near Tague?)
 
5. CT (Zeon version) : 4 shots total were fired. 3 loud shots from one gunman in TSBD using a semi auto rifle , 1 suppressed shot by a 2nd gunman in Daltex bldg.
1st shot at Z160-170 was the suppressed shot by Daltex gunman that missed just past JFKs right shoulder. Only a few persons heard this shot . Willis girl slowed and then stopped by Z195 in response to hearing that shot. Amos Euins may have heard that shot also, explaining why he heard 4 shots.
2nd  (1st loud shot heard ) was at Z224 that hit both JFK and JC . That bullet was a pointed bullet found on the stretcher, which had to be replaced with CE399.
3rd (2nd loud shot heard ) shot was between Z224 and Z313 at about Z270 that went slightly high and hit the curb near Tague. That bullet left trace metallic element in the curb that were different than  an MC bullet
4th (3rd loud shot heard) was 313
 
Note: the 3 loud shots were fired in 4.8 seconds with the last 2 just slightly closer together , which matches Harold Normans boom click click 3 shot spacing which he completes in about 4 secs ( in video recordings)  The “click click” could be sound of the shells bouncing on the floor.

4. WC/CT (Dan version) 3 shots fired by solitary gunman ( NOT Oswald however) , from TSBD, using the MC rifle? 1st shot at Z224 hits JFK and JC as per the SBT. 2nd shot is Z313. 3rd shot is about 2 secs later which was just a final unaimed shot ( which hit the curb near Tague?)

Not necessarily using the MC, the point of the MC was to frame Oswald. Once it's realised Oswald didn't take the shots there's no real reason to imagine the toytown MC was actually used.
And I wouldn't describe the final shot as "unaimed" or necessarily two seconds later. The last shot might have been pulled high due to the sudden appearance of Clint Hill on the back of the limo or Jackie jumping onto the trunk. It's hard to know beyond speculation.
The last shot came very rapidly after the second shot according to many witnesses. It's hard to imagine the third shot being the head shot in this scenario as there would be very little time to take aim after the second shot (which I believe to be the head shot).
A first shot at z222/223 is not speculation and neither is the head shot.

[Andrew Mason]

In Andrew's scenario JFK is shot at z193, through the oak tree, and he carries on smiling and waving.

This is not a joke or an exaggeration.

Yes it is. At worst Oswald fired the first shot when JFK was clear of all parts ofc the tree except a few outer leaves that really did not hide much. And he reacted immediately but gradually, by turning forward moving left, then bringing his hands to his upper chest and then slipping down and leaning to the left with his head down and facing to the left. All of this starts at z193.

It must also be noted that, in Andrew's demented theory, at the same time JBC is hit in the leg by a bullet that hits the bone in his leg....and he doesn't notice it.
According to Andrew's demented theory JFK doesn't realise he's been shot and neither does JBC.

What is unusual about someone being shot in the leg and not feeling it? It is actually very  common for people to be shot and not feel anything immediately.