When Was JBC Hit?

[Jerry Organ]

Trying to figure out what Andrew was getting at. He thinks a SBT shot would have come in over the tire hump?

[Charles Collins]

Trying to figure out what Andrew was getting at. He thinks a SBT shot would have come in over the tire hump?

Andrew doesn’t appear to be on the same page. Here is what I was trying to describe:


You can see in the Main Street photo that one vertical line touches both JBC and JFK.




However, in the Z193 frame this is not the case. There is considerable distance between them.




I know there is a small difference in the camera angles. The horizontal angle difference might be the cause of part of this space between JBC and JFK. However, I suspect that most of it is due to JBC being further inboard in Z193 than he is in the Main Street photo.

Sadly, Andrew seems to think that they depict similar positions for JBC. I disagree with him on this.

[Andrew Mason]

  They do align - with a point behind and to the car left.  The shot came from behind to the car right.

They align with the camera angle. That is the point. If the camera angle is similar to the camera angle in Z193, then the space between JFK’s left arm and JBC’s right shoulder (in Z193) indicates that JBC is further inboard in Z193 than he is in the Main Street photo that you tried to use to demonstrate JBC’s position. Perhaps someone with better skills and motivation than me will compare the two camera angles and let us know if they are relatively close.

They are fairly close - less than a degree difference.

The camera sightline on the Main Street photo appears to go from the front edge of the front door handle to the left edge of the left rear handhold:

This line projected onto the limo overhead:

shows an angle from the camera to the car direction of 28.1 degrees.

The camera sightline at z193 appears to go from the front of the rear door handle to the right side of the left rear hand-hold:

This line projected onto the limo overhead:

shows an angle from the camera to the car direction of 28.3 degrees.

[Andrew Mason]

[img height=300https://images2.imgbox.com/1e/2d/VDkWHcBG_o.jpg[/img]http://Trying to figure out what Andrew was getting at. He thinks a SBT shot would have come in over the tire hump?

I was trying to figure out what Charles was getting at.  He said: "The photo on Main Street shows JBC’s right shoulder inline with JFK’s left arm." ie



I thought he was referring to something to do with the SBT. But based on his last post he was referring to the fact that in z193 there is a space between those shoulders.  But he is assuming that JBC is oriented the same in z193 and that JFK is in the same vertical position.  JBC is turned more to the right in z193 than he was on Main St. and JFK appears to be leaning forward on Main St. and sitting more vertical in z193.


The horizontal camera angle is also slightly greater and the vertical angle is much lower in z193 than on Main St.  But the main difference is the distance from the camera to the car and the different perspective.  One can see on Main St., for example, that the right side of JFK projects back to the spare tire but in z193 his right side projects to the left of the spare tire.

[Charles Collins]

I was trying to figure out what Charles was getting at.  He said: "The photo on Main Street shows JBC’s right shoulder inline with JFK’s left arm." ie



I thought he was referring to something to do with the SBT. But based on his last post he was referring to the fact that in z193 there is a space between those shoulders.  But he is assuming that JBC is oriented the same in z193 and that JFK is in the same vertical position.  JBC is turned more to the right in z193 than he was on Main St. and JFK appears to be leaning forward on Main St. and sitting more vertical in z193.


The horizontal camera angle is also slightly greater and the vertical angle is much lower in z193 than on Main St.  But the main difference is the distance from the camera to the car and the different perspective.  One can see on Main St., for example, that the right side of JFK projects back to the spare tire but in z193 his right side projects to the left of the spare tire.

The lower vertical angle in the Z193 frame doesn’t show the top surface of the spare tire container. This makes it appear smaller overall. I think that if we could see the top surface of the spare tire container in the Z193 frame, that JFK’s right side would still be overlapping it. Maybe a little less overlap, but still overlapped.

[Royell Storing]

  You guys over-complicate the alignment issue. Why? Because you have Failed to thoroughly research this issue. There is film footage of the Connally jump seat vs the position of JFK when he is tucked back into that corner where the Backseat Backrest meets the passenger side of the Limo. This is where JFK positioned himself when riding through Dallas on 11/22/63. In fact, on the rare occasion that JFK is sitting upright in the JFK Limo, his (L) Knee is in contact with Gov Connally's jump seat. When JFK then leans back into that corner, his throat/adam's apple is nowhere close to being in-line with Connally. Just look at the images you do have. JFK's (R) armpit is almost directly over the (R) side of the Limo. Where does this place his adam's apple? Certainly nowhere close to being in-line with the Connally jump seat which sits well toward the center of the JFK Limo.   

[Jerry Organ]

Do you mean something like this, Charles?

[Mitch Todd]

  "SuperScience"? Specifically, what is that?

It is called "sarcasm"