When Was JBC Hit?

[Jack Nessan]

Thanks, but under the circumstances of Zapruder concentrating on his filming, I can understand him not specifically recalling an inconsequential missed shot.

As for the two shot eyewitnesses, the number is statistically insignificant.



JohnM

The example presented was based on startle reaction. How can someone be startled by a sound they did not hear? Again, didn’t jiggle analysis indicate there were only two similar reactions?

 

These graphs are a fools game. Most of the % is based on earwitnesses not eyewitnesses. Why stop at just the earwitnesses in Dealey Plaza maybe they should have went a block over and asked those people. 

 

The eyewitnesses tell a different story. First statements vs later statements present a different graph. There are endless variations of when the statements are taken as to how many shots and the location of the witnesses, whether they were eyewitnesses or earwitnesses, and also their descriptions of the second shot being the headshot, or two shots so close together they sounded as if they were one. All kinds of descriptions in statements that are interpreted as three shots but are actually two shot descriptions.

 

Jackie clearly states the medias influence that occurred following the assassination.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you have any recollection of whether there were one or more shots?
Mrs. KENNEDY. Well, there must have been two because the one that made me turn around was Governor Connally yelling. And it used to confuse me because first I remembered there were three and I used to think my husband didn't make any sound when he was shot. And Governor Connally screamed. And then I read the other day that it was the same shot that hit them both. But I used to think if I only had been looking to the right I would have seen the first shot hit him, then I could have pulled him down, and then the second shot would not have hit him. But I heard Governor Connally yelling and that made me turn around, and as I turned to the right my husband was doing this [indicating with hand at neck]. He was receiving a bullet. And those are the only two I remember.
And I read there was a third shot. But I don't know. Just those two.

Zapruder is correlating everything he hears to the reaction in the car.  You are suggesting that after the headshot he forgot he heard another shot? He flat out stated he only heard two shots. The first shot JFK slumps, second shot his head explodes. No other shots, he doesn't hear a shot and nothing happened in the car.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - …... I never even heard a third shot

[Andrew Mason]

Rather than getting bogged down in various theories, particularly your own, it's more of a general discussion about what we actually see in the Z-film.
You agree JBC is reacting - how would you describe the reaction?

It looks to me like he is reacting the way he said he reacted to the first shot.

[John Mytton]

The example presented was based on startle reaction. How can someone be startled by a sound they did not hear? Again, didn’t jiggle analysis indicate there were only two similar reactions?

 

These graphs are a fools game. Most of the % is based on earwitnesses not eyewitnesses. Why stop at just the earwitnesses in Dealey Plaza maybe they should have went a block over and asked those people. 

 

The eyewitnesses tell a different story. First statements vs later statements present a different graph. There are endless variations of when the statements are taken as to how many shots and the location of the witnesses, whether they were eyewitnesses or earwitnesses, and also their descriptions of the second shot being the headshot, or two shots so close together they sounded as if they were one. All kinds of descriptions in statements that are interpreted as three shots but are actually two shot descriptions.

 

Jackie clearly states the medias influence that occurred following the assassination.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you have any recollection of whether there were one or more shots?
Mrs. KENNEDY. Well, there must have been two because the one that made me turn around was Governor Connally yelling. And it used to confuse me because first I remembered there were three and I used to think my husband didn't make any sound when he was shot. And Governor Connally screamed. And then I read the other day that it was the same shot that hit them both. But I used to think if I only had been looking to the right I would have seen the first shot hit him, then I could have pulled him down, and then the second shot would not have hit him. But I heard Governor Connally yelling and that made me turn around, and as I turned to the right my husband was doing this [indicating with hand at neck]. He was receiving a bullet. And those are the only two I remember.
And I read there was a third shot. But I don't know. Just those two.

Zapruder is correlating everything he hears to the reaction in the car.  You are suggesting that after the headshot he forgot he heard another shot? He flat out stated he only heard two shots. The first shot JFK slumps, second shot his head explodes. No other shots, he doesn't hear a shot and nothing happened in the car.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - …... I never even heard a third shot

Since you brought up the Limo occupants.

Mrs Connally

Mr. DULLES. To the right was into your arms more or less?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not.
I just pulled him over into my arms because it would have been impossible to get us really both down with me sitting and me holding him. So that I looked out, I mean as he was in my arms, I put my head down over his head so that his head and my head were right together, and all I could see, too, were the people flashing by. I didn't look back any more. The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us.

John Connally

Mr. SPECTER. Nellie is Mrs. Connally?
Governor CONNALLY. Mrs. Connally. When she pulled me over into her lap, she could tell I was still breathing and moving, and she said, "Don't worry, Be quiet. You are going to be all right." She Just kept telling me I was going to be all right.
After the third shot, and I heard Roy Kellerman tell the driver, "Bill, get out of line." And then I saw him move, and I assumed he was moving a button or something on the panel of the automobile, and he said, "Get us to a hospital quick." I assumed he was saying this to the patrolman, the motorcycle police who were leading us.

William Robert Greer.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, how many shots, or how many noises have you just described that you heard?
Mr. GREER. I know there was three that I heard--three. But I cannot remember any more than probably three. I know there was three anyway that I heard.

Roy Kellerman heard a flurry of shots enter the Limo(which I believe were the fragments bouncing around), but he definitely heard more than two.

Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, to the best of your ability to recollect, exactly when did your automobile first accelerate?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--
Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.

I would also like to finally add that three shells were found in the sniper's nest and the closest earwitness, the "boom click click, boom click click, boom click click" man(Harold Norman) heard 3 shots.



And the closest earwitness, Harold Norman, who was just on the floor below heard 3 shots.

Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. NORMAN. Three.

@3:58

JohnM

[Royell Storing]

  Knott Lab and their Laser findings concluded that the SBT is IMPOSSIBLE. This makes the ongoing discussion immaterial. No SBT = Multiple Shooters = Conspiracy.  CASE CLOSED!

[John Mytton]

  Knott Lab and their Laser findings concluded that the SBT is IMPOSSIBLE. This makes the ongoing discussion immaterial. No SBT = Multiple Shooters = Conspiracy.  CASE CLOSED!

Knott Lab and their Laser findings...

Just as a matter of interest, when did Knott Lab accurately laser measure the position of JFK's Limo on Elm and more importantly when did they accurately laser measure the precise positions of Kennedy and Connally within the actual Limo?

JohnM

[Royell Storing]

Just as a matter of interest, when did Knott Lab accurately laser measure the position of JFK's Limo on Elm and more importantly when did they accurately laser measure the precise positions of Kennedy and Connally within the actual Limo?

JohnM

   
  FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. This Laser 360 Technology is far more advanced than ANY that has EVER been done with regard to the JFK Assassination/Dealey Plaza.  The Knott Lab 360 technology has routinely been used/accepted in court cases across the USA. CASE CLOSED!

[Jerry Organ]

   
  FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. This Laser 360 Technology is far more advanced than ANY that has EVER been done with regard to the JFK Assassination/Dealey Plaza.  The Knott Lab 360 technology has routinely been used/accepted in court cases across the USA. CASE CLOSED!

John is right. the only things laser-surveyed were stationary buildings, structures, streets and objects as they exist today.



The positioning of the limousine, the two men and the Stemmons sign were entirely subjective. The absurbly-low JFK inshoot and left-chest exit came from a conspiracy theorist.

[John Mytton]

   
  FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. This Laser 360 Technology is far more advanced than ANY that has EVER been done with regard to the JFK Assassination/Dealey Plaza.  The Knott Lab 360 technology has routinely been used/accepted in court cases across the USA. CASE CLOSED!

Sure, they accurately laser plotted Dealey Plaza 60 years later, did they allow for the variation in land movement, repaved road height, etc etc?

Also I juxtaposed the two frames from their video presentation and matching the two images showed heavy variations, for example the Don Knotts Lab's Stemmons sign has the wrong angle, the side of the Limo warps, Connally's shoulder height is way off, etc etc.
And again, and listen closely this time, as can be seen by The Don Knotts Lab Hulking out Connally, this avalanche of mistakes leads to more unavoidable errors and lastly the exact plotting of the precise 3D positions of Hulked out Connally and Kennedy from a 2D image is open to biased interpretation.
Iirc Dale Myers scientifically allowed any variations of 3D depth which concurred with the 2D images to fit his hypothesis whereas the opposite methodology of placing the models to achieve a predetermined outcome is the antithesis of science.



JohnM