When Was JBC Hit?

[Dan O'meara]

   The Zapruder Film and other assassination films have a perspective issue regarding the seated position of JFK with his (R) Arm resting on top of the Passenger side of the Limo vs Gov. Connally's Jump Seat location inside the JFK Limo. The absolutely best way to view the alignment of JFK vs Connally is at Love Field when both men got inside the Limo, sat down, and we then view them from the rear as the JFK Limo pulls away from Love Field. There is B/W Film Footage of this which puts the SBT to bed. It is Images such as this which provided the foundation for Knott Lab Laser SCIENCE declaring that the SBT, "Is Impossible".  I have been around this Forum for years and NEVER seen this B/W Love Field footage posted here.

The question being asked is about your opinion when JBC appears to be reacting to a shot in the clip above.
What is your opinion about that?

[Jerry Organ]

  Jerry - Thanks for posting those images. Unfortunately, they are Not the ones I referenced having examined.

Better you post those images than make others guess. That's about it for "JFK Limo pulls away from Love Field" back-view visuals.



Did you mean the Dave Powers film? (With Connally inboard relative to Kennedy).



This one shows Connally becomes even more inboard when he tries to turn around.

I have seen the images that you posted on this Forum before. They stir the pot,

There are some here who say my presentations inform and educate.

but are nowhere close to being definitive. And, they are nowhere close to giving the viewer a look from BEHIND the JFK Limo. There's a lot of very good JFK Assassination images now making their presence known.

Making their presence known? You need better than your clairvoyance to make images known.

Avoid wasting your time on the jacket bunching stuff. It does nothing but distract from concentrating on the Physical Position of JFK and Gov Connally inside the Limo. With the images that are now available, I recommend you get back inside the JFK research trenches. I proved that was Not Officer Haygood on the Darnell/Martin films, and I will soon reveal my next JFK Assassination Blockbuster. Stay Tuned.

Blockbuster? LOL.

[Charles Collins]

Better you post those images than make others guess. That's about it for "JFK Limo pulls away from Love Field" back-view visuals.



Did you mean the Dave Powers film? (With Connally inboard relative to Kennedy).



This one shows Connally becomes even more inboard when he tries to turn around.

There are some here who say my presentations inform and educate.

Making their presence known? You need better than your clairvoyance to make images known.

Blockbuster? LOL.

This one shows Connally becomes even more inboard when he tries to turn around.


And guess what! JBC said that he had just tried to turn around when he felt the impact of the bullet that hit him in the back. Yet people still want to pretend that JBC was not inboard. Go figure!

[Andrew Mason]

This one shows Connally becomes even more inboard when he tries to turn around.


And guess what! JBC said that he had just tried to turn around when he felt the impact of the bullet that hit him in the back. Yet people still want to pretend that JBC was not inboard. Go figure!

And where, exactly, do you see him turn around like that before z240? 

We will just ignore the fact that Nellie said she looked at JFK with his hands to his neck after the first shot and before the second when JBC was turned around like that:


And I guess it is also ok to ignore the many witnesses who said JFK stopped smiling and waving and quickly reacted to the first shot, even though a second shot-SBT means he kept smiling and waving for 3 seconds afterward, which not a single witness reported seeing.

It is perfectly ok to use photos from Love Field to show their relative positions to bolster the SBT argument.  Here is an even better one:


So it should also be ok to use photos like this one on Main Street that show JBC in the middle of his seat:


and very similar to their positions seen a second before JFK is seen reacting to the neck shot:


Go figure!

[Jerry Organ]

And where, exactly, do you see him turn around like that before z240? 

Connally doesn't to that extent. But it shows that when he did lean, he tended to go more inboard. Try it with human models without grooming them for a bias result.



You have Connally doing the opposite, falling towards the car door when he tries to turn.

We will just ignore the fact that Nellie said she looked at JFK with his hands to his neck after the first shot and before the second when JBC was turned around like that:


And I guess it is also ok to ignore the many witnesses who said JFK stopped smiling and waving and quickly reacted to the first shot, even though a second shot-SBT means he kept smiling and waving for 3 seconds afterward, which not a single witness reported seeing.

Time to turn over that record. Nearly all those "smiling and waving" witnesses were behind JFK. Mary Woodward could see the President and she said he was uninjured by it, and merely looked around. Both Kennedys (plus the Connallys, Agents Ready and Hill, the woman walking near the pool in the "Closer Look" animation) turn their heads, some quite sharply, prior to your Z193 fantasy first shot.

Who do you think you are to accuse people of being OK with ignoring witnesses?

It is perfectly ok to use photos from Love Field to show their relative positions to bolster the SBT argument.  Here is an even better one:

That's a good one, thanks. Whenever Kennedy was over by the right side, and Connally was looking ahead, the Governor was very much inboard relative to the President.

So it should also be ok to use photos like this one on Main Street that show JBC in the middle of his seat:


Go figure!

Connally's butt was in the middle of his seat from the moment he sat down at Love Field. In the Main Street photo, he was momentarily leaning sideways a bit towards his right and Kennnedy was momentarily leaning sideways towards his left. Even with all that, Connally is still inboard relative to Kennedy.

[Charles Collins]

And where, exactly, do you see him turn around like that before z240? 

We will just ignore the fact that Nellie said she looked at JFK with his hands to his neck after the first shot and before the second when JBC was turned around like that:


And I guess it is also ok to ignore the many witnesses who said JFK stopped smiling and waving and quickly reacted to the first shot, even though a second shot-SBT means he kept smiling and waving for 3 seconds afterward, which not a single witness reported seeing.

It is perfectly ok to use photos from Love Field to show their relative positions to bolster the SBT argument.  Here is an even better one:


So it should also be ok to use photos like this one on Main Street that show JBC in the middle of his seat:


and very similar to their positions seen a second before JFK is seen reacting to the neck shot:


Go figure!

The photo on Main Street shows JBC’s right shoulder inline with JFK’s left arm. The Z193 frame shows JBC’s right shoulder significantly further inboard relative to JFK’s left arm. If the angles of the two different photos are similar, then this indicates to me that JBC was significantly further inboard than you suggest.

[Andrew Mason]

Connally doesn't to that extent. But it shows that when he did lean, he tended to go more inboard. Try it with human models without grooming them for a bias result.



You have Connally doing the opposite, falling towards the car door when he tries to turn.

That is because he is not trying to turn around to look back at JFK.  His gaze is consistent with a turn toward Mary Woodward and her group who had just shouted to the President to get his attention.

Time to turn over that record. Nearly all those "smiling and waving" witnesses were behind JFK. Mary Woodward could see the President and she said he was uninjured by it, and merely looked around. Both Kennedys (plus the Connallys, Agents Ready and Hill, the woman walking near the pool in the "Closer Look" animation) turn their heads, some quite sharply, prior to your Z193 fantasy first shot.

Most of the JFK leaned/slumped to the left witnesses (Dave Powers, Sam Kinney, Clint Hill, George Hickey, etc) were also behind JFK.  I don't see JFK smiling AND leaning left or slumping at any time.

Who do you think you are to accuse people of being OK with ignoring witnesses?

Sorry. I must have thought I was Jerry "the FBI were bats_it crazy for the first 5 months" Organ.  But I do apologize to you. You don't ignore them. You just think they didn't see what they said they saw so you don't include them in your analysis.  I suppose, there is a difference between that and ignoring their evidence entirely.

[Charles Collins]

Neither the FBI or the Secret Service were crazy. They just didn’t initially see the problems with their theory that the investigators with the Warren Commission saw. People who suggest that the Warren Commission blindly accepted the conclusions of the FBI and Secret Service without performing their own investigations apparently do not know what they are saying. It was bold of the WC investigators to stand up to the FBI/SS and tell them that they were mistaken. However, the single bullet theory has withstood many tests over an extended period of time and survived intact.
You are entitled to your own opinion Andrew. But that is all it is… your opinion.