Do we know anymore at 60 years?

[Fergus O'Brien]

Listen to Arnold's own words.

Gordon Arnold claims a man with a massive weapon came out and confiscated his film! But obviously left the wide open Zapruder completely alone, as if. And the fact that a man would expose himself to the place where Arnold said he was standing while carrying a huge weapon is just crazy!

Gordon Arnold says where he was, had a bunch of bullets firing over his head, but how many eyewitnesses said there was more than three shots fired? And don't forget we know for a fact that that bothy Kennedy and Connally were shot in the back so there's also that shot/shots to add to the amount of shots fired. And another important piece of information that must be considered is that 94% of eyewitnesses didn't report hearing crossfire therefore all the shots came from one location and logically since we know both Kennedy and Connally were definitely shot in the back by definition all shots came from the top end of Elm street.

Gordon Arnold also says, which to me sounds like he's trying to convince himself, "There's no doubt in my mind I was there...and it did occur" If he was truly there why would he feel the need to introduce the concept of doubt? A normal person who was really there would say "I was there, and it did occur" simple as that.

And the way he gets emotional when he sees himself as a blob in Moorman's photo, next to the well known blob known by deluded fantasist's as badgeman, paints a picture of a deranged old man seeking his unwarranted 15 minutes of Fame! Very Sad!

JohnM

well i guess in that case you a quite well known lone nut advocate consider the late mr mack to have been a deluded fantasist given he gave us badgeman and said his work was verified . tell me have you shared those views with your fellow lone nuts ? .

[Fergus O'Brien]

Now I have a stalker. He's even stalking the late Gary Mack. Or, rather, in his mind, he's meekly asking innocent questions. 

Imagine, a guy who thinks the the sun shines out of the asses of the likes of Harold Weisberg, Sylvia Meagher, Robert (six shots struck and three misses) Groden, Jim (up to nine shots fired) Marrs, Penn Jones and Jim Garrison questioning the bona fides and legacy of Gary Mack.

Sure, some "LNers" have CT views. Robert Blakey once said there couldn't be a shot fired from the Badge Man location because the acoustic evidence "proved" a knoll came from elsewhere. I think it likely both Mack and Blakey figured Oswald fired shots at the President and killed Officer Tippit.

The Ricky White fiasco, I think, convinced Mack to be more cynical about conspiracy claims. Tink Thompson worked with Mack on the Moorman Photo (to demonstrate she was standing on the grass and not the street). I bet Mack was taken aback by the 2004 BadgeMan analysis by Dale K. Myers ( Link ). Interesting that "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" documentary claimed that Geoffrey Crawley "verified and duplicated" the Badge Man figure. According to Myers ...

    "In November 2001, British photographic expert Geoffrey CRAWLEY was
     contacted in London, England. Through a series of interviews, it was learned
     that CRAWLEY did not support MACK and WHITE’s theory, as claimed in
     The Men Who Killed Kennedy program, but came to the same conclusion
     I had 13 years later. In a two-page written report submitted to Nigel TURNER
     in 1988, CRAWLEY concluded that if in fact the Badge Man figure were a
     human being of average height and build he was standing 12 to 18 feet
     behind the fence line and elevated 3 to 4 feet off the ground. CRAWLEY also
     believed that the fatal head shot wasn’t feasible from that position and
     line-of-sight. It was CRAWLEY's belief that MACK and WHITE had
     misinterpreted background elements that were inherent in the original
     photograph. According to CRAWLEY, Nigel TURNER ignored his report
     because he "seemed to think that anything that could cast a doubt on
     the official view of the assassination would help toward getting the whole
     thing reopened and reappraised."

About all Mack was claiming about Badge Man in later years was that he could have been a human, not an assassin.

You have a stalker ? , i believe this is the second time you have decided to attack me , and i am a stalker ? . When people post here on this forum and give their stand point or opinion well you reply to them yes ? . Well i replied to you , it is no different . I could say that if you dont desire replies that perhaps you should consider not posting and replying your self . In regard the late Mr mack i have not been nasty in any way , i have merely called a spade a spade . This is after all a forum dedicated to not only discussion of this tragic event but also a method of getting at the truth and getting truth out there for people to see . I dont lie , i tell the truth , yes i am human and as such like any human i can and indeed do err at times . So while you can certainly feel free toargue that i may be wrong (something i have no problem with all ) to label me a stalker either jokingly or serious is something i take exception to . I have not indulged in any personal attack on you or any member here and as i have said i take exception to you doing so to me .

To the point in hand here , in regard the topic of this thread , if i recall correctly (without going back through many posts ) you made certain statements regarding both the integrity of mr mack and the 6th floor museum while attacking mr arnold . by the way i never made any statement in regard his reliability or indeed lack there of . I merely asked you what i feel is a valid  question based upon those statements .

I in know way question the undoubted knowledge the late Mr mack had in regard this case . But i do question his deceptive methods which have long been detailed online . SO if there is a question in regards his bona fides well he himself earned it .

In regards any  verification of Mack and whites work on the moormon photo it was Mack himself i believe who said the work had been verified . You now seemingly are stating it was never verified , so can i take that you are stating Mr mack lied ? . But you also then seemingly are saying Mr macks bona fides is not in question , is that not a contradiction ? .

Now Dale Myers ? did he not once say (recorded ) and im not quoting verbatim here , but that in essence he could prove to a reasonable doubt that oswald was guilty of neither killing ? .

So as you seem to be of a view that i am stalking you i will leave things right here .

[Royell Storing]

Now I have a stalker. He's even stalking the late Gary Mack. Or, rather, in his mind, he's meekly asking innocent questions. 

Imagine, a guy who thinks the the sun shines out of the asses of the likes of Harold Weisberg, Sylvia Meagher, Robert (six shots struck and three misses) Groden, Jim (up to nine shots fired) Marrs, Penn Jones and Jim Garrison questioning the bona fides and legacy of Gary Mack.

Sure, some "LNers" have CT views. Robert Blakey once said there couldn't be a shot fired from the Badge Man location because the acoustic evidence "proved" a knoll came from elsewhere. I think it likely both Mack and Blakey figured Oswald fired shots at the President and killed Officer Tippit.

The Ricky White fiasco, I think, convinced Mack to be more cynical about conspiracy claims. Tink Thompson worked with Mack on the Moorman Photo (to demonstrate she was standing on the grass and not the street). I bet Mack was taken aback by the 2004 BadgeMan analysis by Dale K. Myers ( Link ). Interesting that "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" documentary claimed that Geoffrey Crawley "verified and duplicated" the Badge Man figure. According to Myers ...

    "In November 2001, British photographic expert Geoffrey CRAWLEY was
     contacted in London, England. Through a series of interviews, it was learned
     that CRAWLEY did not support MACK and WHITE’s theory, as claimed in
     The Men Who Killed Kennedy program, but came to the same conclusion
     I had 13 years later. In a two-page written report submitted to Nigel TURNER
     in 1988, CRAWLEY concluded that if in fact the Badge Man figure were a
     human being of average height and build he was standing 12 to 18 feet
     behind the fence line and elevated 3 to 4 feet off the ground. CRAWLEY also
     believed that the fatal head shot wasn’t feasible from that position and
     line-of-sight. It was CRAWLEY's belief that MACK and WHITE had
     misinterpreted background elements that were inherent in the original
     photograph. According to CRAWLEY, Nigel TURNER ignored his report
     because he "seemed to think that anything that could cast a doubt on
     the official view of the assassination would help toward getting the whole
     thing reopened and reappraised."

About all Mack was claiming about Badge Man in later years was that he could have been a human, not an assassin.

     Jerry - This is a forum and as such issues and positions are Discussed/Challenged. Anyone doing such is therefore Not a "Stalker". Branding someone a "Stalker" is an attempt to intimidate/bully then into silence.  There's nothing  about branding someone a "stalker". Sinking to this level is indicative of your position strength with regard to Gordon Arnold & Gary Mack. It's sad to see you sink to this level, but there are now several of you that have been on TILT since the Knott Labs Laser 360 SCIENCE proved, "SBT IS IMPOSSIBLE". Attempting to intimidate others around here will Not reverse SCIENCE.

[Royell Storing]

For one "getting at the truth", you sure are silent on the "The Men Who Killed Kennedy"'s misrepresentation of Geoffrey Crawley and the Myers 3D study disproving Badge Man claims.

Mack didn't say Badge Man was verified by Crawley in "The Men Who Shot Kennedy". Mack did say so in 2000, but only months later he said:

    "I'm not locked into Badge Man being the man who killed Kennedy,
     although that is what [Nigel Turner] claimed. Having spent far
     more time than anyone on the image, and reviewed photographic
     evidence few researchers have even heard of, much less seen,
     I cannot find an object that could be mistaken for the Badge Man
     image. In short, it has to be a person. Whether he is firing or not
     is a separate issue."

Then came the Myers study and Mack, as far as I can tell, stopped promoting Badge Man. In 2013, Mack said: 'It’s either some sort of anomaly or they really are people." I thought you admired open-mindedness.

   Gordon Arnold was ill for an extended time and passed on 10/15/1997. It's after this point in time that Gary Mack began earnestly doing his Limbo Dance regarding Badge Man. He used Gordon Arnold as long as possible/$$. The part that really jumps out at me is that Gordon Arnold was inside Dealey Plaza for an extended period of time in late Summer 1988. NOTHING went on inside Dealey Plaza that Mack was Not aware of. Yet, Mack failed to have a face-to-face with Gordon Arnold when the man was there front-and-center. It's obvious that Mack did Not wanna know any more than needed to further his "Badge Man" song-n-dance. Gordon Arnold was Not paid a dime for his, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy", walk-through segment inside Dealey Plaza or the add-on segment at his home around the pool. Gary Mack and his version of Charlie McCarthy/Jack White did an extended bit inside Dealey Plaza on, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy", and Mack was also listed on the credits with some sort of title. Upon Arnold becoming ill/passing, Gary Mack begins his 180 with regard to "Badge Man". Gordon Arnold was always "The Patsy". As for Mack? Curator/$$     

[Royell Storing]

This reminds me of the character assassination by "open-minded", "truth-seeking" CTs of Tink Thompson, when he challenged the film alterationists. He was restored to grace when "Last Second in Dallas" was published two years ago.

There's only a handful of prominent CTs worthy of honor like Tink and Mack. But critcs will tear them down if they entertain the merest LN thought. Classic cult behavior.

    "Prominent CT's"??   Gary Mack set the CT effort back decades. He screwed the pooch on: (1) Acoustic Evidence, (2) McKinnon/Mumford WRONG ID, (3) Badge Man Debacle, (4) Wiegman Filmed "continuously".
     And Thompson was a Navy Seal before there were Navy Seals. He was plugged into the Military Industrial Complex long before any legit "researcher" knew who the heck he was. Plus, Thompson was on the Time/Life payroll. This is the same "front" group that paid Zapruder $150K for his Film. Both Mack and Thompson are "false flagger's" that have been rewarded handsomely for their covert mission.
       

[Fergus O'Brien]

     Jerry - This is a forum and as such issues and positions are Discussed/Challenged. Anyone doing such is therefore Not a "Stalker". Branding someone a "Stalker" is an attempt to intimidate/bully then into silence.  There's nothing  about branding someone a "stalker". Sinking to this level is indicative of your position strength with regard to Gordon Arnold & Gary Mack. It's sad to see you sink to this level, but there are now several of you that have been on TILT since the Knott Labs Laser 360 SCIENCE proved, "SBT IS IMPOSSIBLE". Attempting to intimidate others around here will Not reverse SCIENCE.

Thank you for chiming in on this Royell , it is much appreciated , thank you . But it is ok , i am no stranger at all to discussing this case with LN , i believe i may have had every name or insult there is thrown at me at one time or another .So i am in no way un experienced when it comes to debating with LN . Not that i am saying anything at all about Mr organ , i have no problem with criticism if deserved and or being corrected or correcting myself if wrong .

Thank you again .

[Fergus O'Brien]

For one "getting at the truth", you sure are silent on the "The Men Who Killed Kennedy"'s misrepresentation of Geoffrey Crawley and the Myers 3D study disproving Badge Man claims.

Mack didn't say Badge Man was verified by Crawley in "The Men Who Shot Kennedy". Mack did say so in 2000, but only months later he said:

    "I'm not locked into Badge Man being the man who killed Kennedy,
     although that is what [Nigel Turner] claimed. Having spent far
     more time than anyone on the image, and reviewed photographic
     evidence few researchers have even heard of, much less seen,
     I cannot find an object that could be mistaken for the Badge Man
     image. In short, it has to be a person. Whether he is firing or not
     is a separate issue."

Then came the Myers study and Mack, as far as I can tell, stopped promoting Badge Man. In 2013, Mack said: 'It’s either some sort of anomaly or they really are people." I thought you admired open-mindedness.

You are quite correct in TMWKK mack himself did not say he and Whites work was verified , it was stated on screen  . for anyone reading this who is curious about this please see the men who killed kennedy part 2 the forces of darkness . its on youtube . However that program was broadcast in 1991 . in 9 years mack never disputed this ? . even you state that in 2000 he (MACK) did make that claim . Of course between those two dates he became museum curator and as we saw his stance changed .

I do admire open mindedness , we all need to be open minded , but i also hate deception . And sadly in his life both applied to the late Mr mack .

"For one "getting at the truth", you sure are silent on the "The Men Who Killed Kennedy"'s misrepresentation of Geoffrey Crawley and the Myers 3D study disproving Badge Man claims." jerry organ

i have been involved in several topics here , one about mr brehm , one about how fast the rifle could shoot , and one about LHO escape , there may be a fourth topic that eludes me now but then i am not keeping count . However i have never been involved in any discussion topic on this forum with anyone about this documentary series . And lastly i dont feel a need to pick up on every single point , post and comment that people make .some things interest me and some things dont .

[Royell Storing]

  Gary Mack was even deceptive during the interview he did with Gordon Arnold's widow and son. Mack apologizes for never having talked with Gordon Arnold eyeball-to-eyeball, (paraphrasing). Mack did this to trick the audience into believing that he NEVER Talked with Arnold. This is WRONG. In fact, Mack did Talk on the PHONE with Gordon Arnold in "80" and "81". Did Mack lie? NO. But his intention was to mislead the audience. Why? Because on "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" Mack and Jack White were claiming they INDEPENDENTLY found their "Badge Man" when examining the Moorman photo. Truth is, Mack well knew the Gordon Arnold story along with Arnold's "No Hat Cop". Mack knew Arnold had claimed that a bullet came flying over his left shoulder. And what was behind Gordon Arnold's left shoulder? The Picket Fence. That "Badge Man" was not "discovered". It was "tailored" to fit into the Gordon Arnold story which Gary Mack knew chapter and verse. A total Flim-Flam by Mack dating from "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" (1988), right up to his attempting to hide his "80"/"81" conversations with Gordon Arnold during the Arnold widow/son interview in 2006. These are the continuous acts of a Charlatan.