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Author Topic: Do we know anymore at 60 years?  (Read 24468 times)

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2023, 03:31:18 AM »
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@Fergus  regarding my opinion on 2 shooters possibility.

My current opinion is that one shooter with a semi auto rifle would be all that was necessary to take out JFK in the completely exposed position he was , having opted  to ride in a slow moving (20mph) limo in the open without the top and without the usual protocol of 2 SS agents riding on the rear of the limo.

2 or more assassins with bolt action rifles seems to me to be more risky, because of increasing probability of being discovered/seen and also increasing the Murphys  law effect of a snafu occurring and not completing the task.

Therefore imo, since it  actually may be a higher  probability of completion of the task by a single gunman, then it’s not so implausible that a lone nut like Oswald could have done it with a bolt action rifle if the shots are spread over a 6-7 sec span of time and there’s at least 3 secs between each shot.

Unfortunately, the earwitness right beneath the TSBD 6th floor SE shooter, Harold Norman, has recalled consistently the time of all 3 shots he heard fired in less than 4 seconds judging from his boom click click sequence. (Note: It may be necessary to record a video of a person using a stopwatch while watching the video of Norman doing his boom click click sequence to prove absolutely that Norman completes it in less than 4 secs)

Less than 4 secs is too fast  for there to be any reasonable probability that the MC rifle fired 3 shots imo. The fastest time ever recorded by any CBS trial test shooter who also was able to score 3 hits on the moving target  ( but no head shot)
was 5.1 secs (according toDan Rather reporting it)

Also since vast majority of witness heard shots 2 and 3 “back to back “ or simulated the time like Lee Bowers rapping his hand in the desk as about only 0.5 to 1 sec apart, therefore it’s not very probable that both shot 2 and 3 were fired by a solitary shooter with a bolt action rifle.

There is the curiosity of Loran Hall and William Seymour having  possibly been in the company of Oswald at the Sylvia Odio apartment.

There is the coincidence of Loran Hall at one time having possibly owned an M1941 Johnson
7.62mm Semi auto rifle that uses conical shape “pointed” bullets.

There is the coincidence of the witness who found a bullet on JFK stretcher describing the bullet as a more “pointed” bullet than the CE 399 bullet.

There is a coincidence that the M1941 Johnson rifle makes a “click” noise as it ejects shells.

There is a coincidence that the M1941 Johnson  rifle was issued to Bay of Pigs operatives.

There is a coincidence that this particular rifle when disassembled easily can fit in a 24” length bag.

There is a coincidence with  one witness who saw a rifle in the TSBD window  describing  it looked like a “machinegun” and the fact the M1941 Johnson was also designated in some configurations as a machine gun ( and with heat shield could look similar)

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2023, 03:31:18 AM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2023, 03:48:54 AM »

  Even Sitzman mentioned the possibility of a silencer being used.  I believe this was the case with the rifle that Gordon Arnold had shoved in his face. A silencer on the end of the rifle made the barrel appear huge with respect to circumference.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2023, 04:33:30 AM »
  Even Sitzman mentioned the possibility of a silencer being used.  I believe this was the case with the rifle that Gordon Arnold had shoved in his face. A silencer on the end of the rifle made the barrel appear huge with respect to circumference.

 Thumb1:





 :D

JohnM

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2023, 04:33:30 AM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #75 on: December 06, 2023, 03:48:33 PM »
Here is Arnold in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" (seen in the still frame above): "And as I was panning down in this direction, just as I got to about this position, a shot came right past my left ear, and that meant it would have had to have come from this direction. And that’s when I fell down, and to me it seemed like a second shot was at least fired over my head. There was a bunch of report [sic] going on in this particular area at that time."

If they used a silencer then how did he hear "a shot" and then a "second shot" and then a "bunch of report"? Us lone nutters can be so cynical sometimes.....

Since I've been disqualified as a commentator I just want to say that I'm asking this for a friend.

    For starters, a "silencer" does Not Completely eliminate the explosive sound of a bullet being fired. It diminishes that sound. The "second shot" and "bunch of report" that Arnold mentions would be from additional shooter(s).
    Arnold detailed his 11/22/63 experience during his 45 minute Sixth Floor Interview (6/6/1989), which is roughly only 10 months after he did "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" piece. Arnold's health was deteriorating, and he wanted to detail what he had experienced on 11/22/63 for posterity. He never wanted to tell his story, which is why it took 25 yrs for him to reveal it on "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". Gordon Arnold told 1 guy during Jury Duty, and that guy told so and so, and the Arnold story proceeded to be handed down & down. This is how Gary Mack came to call Arnold in an attempt to pump him for info on his JFK Assassination experience way back in 1980/81. This was Long BEFORE Gary Mack and Jack White "discovered" Badge Man. The "Badge Man" was created/pieced together to fit the Gordon Arnold story, which Mack was well aware of back in 1980. Even Jim Marrs tried to sucker Arnold into telling him his story, but Arnold was "no soap" with him too. Gordon Arnold never wanted to tell his story, and Never made a dime from it. Never.   
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 03:50:44 PM by Royell Storing »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2023, 10:05:13 PM »
There was that coincidence of Braden, the mafia guy , Just happened to be in the Daltex building carrying a briefcase of some sort, just about during the time the JFK motorcade was entering Dealey  plaza.

Wonder what happened to that guy? Did he die of sudden cancer while in jail awaiting an appeal  like Ruby did?

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2023, 10:05:13 PM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2023, 11:29:10 PM »
There was that coincidence of Braden, the mafia guy , Just happened to be in the Daltex building carrying a briefcase of some sort, just about during the time the JFK motorcade was entering Dealey  plaza.

Wonder what happened to that guy? Did he die of sudden cancer while in jail awaiting an appeal  like Ruby did?

    I've seen crowd still shots from down in front of the Knoll/near the curb, of a guy wearing a hat. It is a Black Hat with a straight 360 brim. The kinda hat you see Native Americans wearing in Westerns. Usually has a short feather tucked into the hat band on the (L) side. Easy to spot if someone was looking for this guy. It's been speculated that guy was Braden. I bring this up due to if it is him, he left Daltex and then went down into the Knoll area. Maybe crowd control down there near the picket fence?

Offline Paul May

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2023, 02:03:06 AM »
  Even Sitzman mentioned the possibility of a silencer being used.  I believe this was the case with the rifle that Gordon Arnold had shoved in his face. A silencer on the end of the rifle made the barrel appear huge with respect to circumference.

A silencer is the invention of Hollywood. Suppressor is correct.

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2023, 11:36:29 PM »
If there’s a 2nd shooter that is responsible for JC getting hit just almost 0.5 sec after JFK , then the angle required to get past the right shoulder or over right shoulder of JFK kind of suggests the SW 6th floor window of TSBD, coincidentally where Arnold Rowland saw a gunman with rifle with large scope standing for a few seconds at 12:15 pm.

The fact that Rowland could see the scope at the distance of something like 240 ft away suggest the rifle he saw  was NOT an MC rifle with a side mounted scope, but was quite possibly a rifle like a hunting rifle with a center mounted scope just like Rowland himself thought it looked like to him.

This would be 2 shooters on the 6th floor which is more complicated scenario than just 1 shooter with semi auto rifle.

But it could be the plan, considering that John
Martino supposedly confessed to wife about being tasked with paying TWO assassins.

It’s seems doubtful though that Harold Norman would have heard the loudness of all 3 shots  equally , if one of the shooters was  at the SW window.

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Re: Do we know anymore at 60 years?
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2023, 11:36:29 PM »