The LHO Escape -- Panic and Shock

[Martin Weidmann]

The bottom line is, if Kleins were concerned about sending out two different sized Carcano's they would call one C20-T750 and the other one perhaps C20-T751.

Also worth noting is Kleins were advertising the 36 inch Carcano in Guns Magazine as C20-T50 until July63 which directly conflicted with American Rifleman advertising the 40 inch model from April63 to July63 as C20-T750, which indicates that they didn't give a Royal stuff.

Warehouse staff are not designated to think, they receive an order and go to the appropriate shelf and fill out the order with the given Item Number. To believe that they have to cross reference product item numbers with department numbers across a number differing magazines across a number of months across hundreds of various sporting items just doesn't work in the real World.

The Warehouse staff at Kleins, like Oswald in the Depository would be given orders on a clipboard and would go away and fill them. The following crop of Waldman 7 is all they would be concerned with, which they would write in the serial numbers by hand and then take the product and paperwork to despatch.



JohnM

Isn't it just amazing what these LNs are able to do? They can tells us what Oswald was thinking, without having actually known the man or spoken to him. Now, as it turns out they can tell us how Klein's operations worked, without ever having been there and seeing it first hand.

[Martin Weidmann]

Hi Mitch, check your messages.

JohnM

Is there something you said to Todd, to clearly correct him, that you didn't want to share with the forum? I wonder why   

Let me guess, you told him in a PM that he was mistaken because the department number was on the actual coupon, right?

[John Mytton]

Now, as it turns out they can tell us how Klein's operations worked,

Says the man who thinks that the exact same Product Item Number should be differentiated by a magazine coupon? You can't make this up, Hilarious!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Says the man who thinks that the exact same Product Item Number should be differentiated by a magazine coupon? You can't make this up, Hilarious!

JohnM

Well, clearly, you can make it up, because I never said or thought that.

But now you brought it up, what exactly was the purpose of the different department numbers if it wasn't to differentiate between different products?

[John Mytton]

what exactly was the purpose of the different department numbers if it wasn't to differentiate between different products?

Mr. BELIN. Can you just give us one or more of the magazines in which this coupon might have been taken?
Mr. WALDMAN. Well, this coupon was specifically taken from American Rifleman Magazine, issue of February 1963. It's identified by the department number which is shown as--now, if I can read this--shown as Department 358 on the coupon.





JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Mr. BELIN. Can you just give us one or more of the magazines in which this coupon might have been taken?
Mr. WALDMAN. Well, this coupon was specifically taken from American Rifleman Magazine, issue of February 1963. It's identified by the department number which is shown as--now, if I can read this--shown as Department 358 on the coupon.





JohnM

So, not only did the department number identify the magazine but also the month of the issue in which the (in this case) 36" MC rifle was advertised.

I don't think you can any more specific about which item was ordered by using the item number in combination with the department number!

And that's not all. It also explains how Klein's, in later issues of the magazine, continued with C20-T750 for the 40" rifle, as the department number on the coupon would confirm that a 40" rifle was ordered.

Thanks for clearing that up, John

[Martin Weidmann]

OK. It's faint enough in the versions I'm looking at that I can't tell if it's supposed to be "358" or "633" or maybe something else, even with glasses. Even if it is 358, it's set off by itself, and not associated with the C20-T750 order code the way the other identifiers like the control number, item description, and serial number are. As such, it still doesn't give any real credence to the idea that it's some sort of extension to the catalog number. If Klein's really thought that the 36" and 40" rifles were different things, they wouldn't have had the two sizes sharing the same order number. And, if Klein's didn't have any 36" rifles available, "358" is meaningless as some kind of disambiguator. They may have simply fulfilled the order with what they had, figuring that the people buying these things weren't liable to be the type to be picky about the exact length. They just wanted a serviceable rifle cheap, cheap, cheap, and there would be few complaints. Those who did object could then be given the choice of sending it back for a refund or exchange with a 36" model, but they not be many. I've seen this kind of thinking on both ends of the exchange before.

OK. It's faint enough in the versions I'm looking at that I can't tell if it's supposed to be "358" or "633" or maybe something else, even with glasses. Even if it is 358, it's set off by itself, and not associated with the C20-T750 order code the way the other identifiers like the control number, item description, and serial number are.

So, after John corrected you, you still found the need to continue to argue for argument's sake? How typical of you....

Btw, you do understand/know that there is no control number, item description or serial number on the order form, don't you?
They all are on Waldman 7, which got it's basic information from the order form that only contained the order code and the department number on it.

[Zeon Mason]

Ok, in that Backyard photo, the rifle Oswald holding is an MC rifle and it looks like it’s probably closer to 40” in length than 36”

And it has a scope.

That’s about all that can be concluded except for maybe some notch detail on the stock that matches with the MC rifle that was mysteriously placed somehow on the 6th floor TSBD so that it would be found at 1:22 pm Nov 22/63.

Now idk what Oswald’s personality was exactly , but if I received a 40” rifle when I ordered by mail a 36” rifle, I’d kinda be angry about that and probably send the rifle back and demand to either get the rifle I wanted or give me my money back.

However, if somebody I knew fairly well (or thought I did) just GAVE me a 40” rifle that THEY had originally ordered as a 36” rifle then I would not care because I’m getting it FREE!

So this is how Oswald could easily have been set up, unbeknownst to him, somebody opened up a fake Oswald PO Box and added the name A..Hidell as a second name. Then they picked up the rifle when it arrived at the mailbox and then they just gave the rifle to the patsy Oswald.

The backyard photo may have been part of the plan or it might have just been coincidence, which none the less worked out well to further set up the patsy..