The LHO Escape -- Panic and Shock

[Fergus O'Brien]

Oswald was smart enough to know there was no escape plan after shooting the president in broad daylight in the presence of law enforcement.  He knew that death or arrest was part of the equation to commit this act which is why he left most of his money and wedding ring with his wife.  If you believe the crazy Mortal Error theory that Hickey fired the fatal shot, why would that cause Oswald any shock since he was still the assassin?  He would have been shocked to see JFK killed even though he was trying to do exactly that?  How is Oswald a "patsy" when he is firing shoots at JFK in that theory?    I can understand how a bystander would be shocked, but the guy pulling the trigger?  Not so much.

the oswald leaving all his money behind for marina stuff is a nonsense . for those unaware lone nut advocates have been saying FALSELY a long time now that oswald left all his money the morning of that tragic day for marina because he knew he would never return . bugliosi made such a claim . and its not true .firstly oswald had i believe from memory 13 dollars on his person when arrested . that was a tidy sum in 1963 . that was a good days salary back then .

as regard money found at the paines . that money was not left there by oswald on the friday morning november 22 1963 . it is money that lee and marina were saving . oswald put money in an old wallet every time he could , and had done so from a time before they ever lived at the paines . marina her self said so .

that only leaves oswalds ring which in terms of this case proves nothing . in fact oswalds fellow employees (not frazier as they knew each other better ) did not realize he was married . oswald apparently didnt wear his wedding ring during work time because it would snag on things . i can vouch for such a thing happening . i mean in that my ring also snagged and bent and i had to stop wearing it . oswald may have thought (given marinas demeanor thursday night ) that he could not convince her to talk and give him a chance to make things right , so in that sense he may have decided to remove his ring thinking his marriage was over or he may have done it simply in frustration . on the morning of the assassination he woke up late and quickly left and walked to fraziers house . it has been said that oswald strangely turned up  before frazier was ready , but wes has stated that he was running late and had not realized until he saw lee outside . so in his rush having woke up late its not impossible that he forgot his ring something most of us will have done atleast once .but yes we also must allow that he left it there to say to marina that he knew his marriage was over . but that in no way proves he shot jfk .

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

The evidence suggests that LHO was capable of planning an escape. And that, in the relatively little time he had to plan an escape, he planned to at least attempt one. Hiding the rifle near the stairwell was not an action that someone in a blind panic would likely do. Trying to act normal and blending in with other people was his best hope of getting away from the scene. Changing his appearance to make it more difficult to track him was another part of his escape plan. It appears to me that he was seen firing a rifle while wearing his white t-shirt. When Baker and Truly saw him on the second floor just seconds after the shooting he appeared to be in a “jacket”, which I think was just his shirt with the tail hanging out. Then only seconds later, he was seen wearing a white t-shirt. Putting on a light colored jacket as he left the rooming house and shedding it during the run from the Tippit murder scene is apparently another one of his changing his appearance acts. David Belin’s theory of where LHO was headed when he left the rooming house (southbound bus) with the bus transfer makes the most sense of any of the various theories to me. I read the book “Mortal Error.” I think it is one of the most ridiculous theories that I have read about.

Ok, then ridicule the hickey theory in one of the hickey threads. I will see u there.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

firstly before we assert as a given and fact that a person committed a crime we need to have proof that they did commit that crime . certainly their is circumstantial evidence against oswald ,so in that sense i could understand people seeing this or being told about it and having an opinion based on it . but a lot of  that circumstantial evidence can be questioned , disputed or disproven . everyone is entitled to their opinion on this case , however entitlement to an opinion is one thing , no one has any entitlement to be right .

as for the hickey theory people are entitled to their opinion on it , my opinion ? is that its a nonsense .

Ok, if u think that the hickey theory is nonsense then tell me how so in one of the hickey threads. I will meet u there.

[Fergus O'Brien]

"His escape from the SBD showed all the signs of a panicked criminal " della

he was so panicked why when according to whalley (if we can accept that whalley really did have oswald in his taxi ) did he oswald motion when in whalleys taxi to get out to give an old lady the taxi ? . is that really the action of a panicked , hurried , fleeing man who has killed the president and is trying to evade arrest ? . even when in custody as seen on film while oswald showed frustration at finding the charges against him he still remained pretty clam considering the great pressure he must have felt . 

[Fergus O'Brien]

Ok, if u think that the hickey theory is nonsense then tell me how so in one of the hickey threads. I will meet u there.

with the greatest respect . how many of the witnesses who were what 15 feet from the limo on either side of it such as newman , brehm , moormon etc said they saw hickey fire his weapon ? . that i am aware of not a one of them . i am aware that skinny holland saw an agent apparently fall backwards , which i believe is part of the hickey did it theory . he slipped and accidentally fired off a shot .but then we clearly have the same man (holland ) along with simmons and dodd on film very clearly saying they saw smoke under the bushes at the knoll and that they believed a shot came from that area .how does that tally with the hickey did it theory ? .

atleast 3 law suits were filed in regard this theory , one by hickey him self . all three were settled OUT OF COURT . now if the books author and publisher really felt they could prove what they claimed why then did they not take that proof to a court room ? why instead pay out monies in three lawsuits ? . i can see one reason for it , if the theory was taken to court and thrashed it would destroy book sales and  loose them a fortune . paying out was a way to ensure their theory still stands . hickey died thinking he had gotten rid of this , they simply waited until after he died and brought it back in video format in a program called the smoking gun , not to be confused with TMWKK the smoking guns .a program that by the way has howard donahue conducting a very disengenuous investigation and stating in essence if memory serves me that the commission was right and oswald did it . while he at the same time was in some regard behind pushing the hickey did it theory . playing both sides of the field if you will .

i have seen this theory a lot and discussed it quite a bit and i see no merit in it or discussing it further . i reply here only to topics of interest to both me and to the jfk assassination case . what oswald did or did not do pre or post shooting is of great importance and interest . that is my interest here not the hickey did it theory . as i have said everyone is entitled to an opinion , i wont try to dissuade you from yours , it is your right to have / hold any opinion .

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

with the greatest respect . how many of the witnesses who were what 15 feet from the limo on either side of it such as newman , brehm , moormon etc said they saw hickey fire his weapon ? . that i am aware of not a one of them .

 i am aware that skinny holland saw an agent apparently fall backwards , which i believe is part of the hickey did it theory . he slipped and accidentally fired off a shot .but then we clearly have the same man (holland ) along with simmons and dodd on film very clearly saying they saw smoke under the bushes at the knoll and that they believed a shot came from that area .how does that tally with the hickey did it theory ? .

atleast 3 law suits were filed in regard this theory , one by hickey him self . all three were settled OUT OF COURT . now if the books author and publisher really felt they could prove what they claimed why then did they not take that proof to a court room ? why instead pay out monies in three lawsuits ? . i can see one reason for it , if the theory was taken to court and thrashed it would destroy book sales and  loose them a fortune . paying out was a way to ensure their theory still stands . hickey died thinking he had gotten rid of this , they simply waited until after he died and brought it back in video format in a program called the smoking gun , not to be confused with TMWKK the smoking guns .a program that by the way has howard donahue conducting a very disengenuous investigation and stating in essence if memory serves me that the commission was right and oswald did it . while he at the same time was in some regard behind pushing the hickey did it theory . playing both sides of the field if you will .

i have seen this theory a lot and discussed it quite a bit and i see no merit in it or discussing it further . i reply here only to topics of interest to both me and to the jfk assassination case . what oswald did or did not do pre or post shooting is of great importance and interest . that is my interest here not the hickey did it theory . as i have said everyone is entitled to an opinion , i wont try to dissuade you from yours , it is your right to have / hold any opinion .

1. Go to any of my threads re Hickey, & show where any of my conclusions are wrong.
2. Dwell for a moment, re the fact, that not one CTer or LNer etc have ever changed their opinion on this forum, not ever following my brilliant genius revelations, & not re any other revelations.
3. Add yourself to this list.
4. There are say 10 witnesses to Hickey firing his weapon.
5. Yes Holland's wordage that supports Hickey firing is at odds with his wordage that there was smoke near the fence. Feel free to use your BS meter here, as with all other wordages.
6. Re the lawsuit, it looks to me that u reckon that Hickey did not do the dirty deed koz of lawyers. Hardly science.
7. I don’t understand any of what u said re Donahue being disingenuous.
8. I don’t understand any of what u said re Donahue playing both sides.
9. Show me where there is no merit in my wordage re Hickey did it.
10. Show me one fact that precludes the Hickey did it theory. Just one. One strike & the Hickey theory is out.
11. How can anything connected with what Oswald did pre or post shooting be of any import re the fact that Hickey shot jfk?

[Martin Weidmann]

1. Go to any of my threads re Hickey, & show where any of my conclusions are wrong.
2. Dwell for a moment, re the fact, that not one CTer or LNer etc have ever changed their opinion on this forum, not ever following my brilliant genius revelations, & not re any other revelations.
3. Add yourself to this list.
4. There are say 10 witnesses to Hickey firing his weapon.
5. Yes Holland's wordage that supports Hickey firing is at odds with his wordage that there was smoke near the fence. Feel free to use your BS meter here, as with all other wordages.
6. Re the lawsuit, it looks to me that u reckon that Hickey did not do the dirty deed koz of lawyers. Hardly science.
7. I don’t understand any of what u said re Donahue being disingenuous.
8. I don’t understand any of what u said re Donahue playing both sides.
9. Show me where there is no merit in my wordage re Hickey did it.
10. Show me one fact that precludes the Hickey did it theory. Just one. One strike & the Hickey theory is out.
11. How can anything connected with what Oswald did pre or post shooting be of any import re the fact that Hickey shot jfk?

not ever following my brilliant genius revelations

It seems you yourself haven't changed your flawed opinion that your revelations were "brilliant genius".

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

not ever following my brilliant genius revelations

It seems you yourself haven't changed your flawed opinion that your revelations were "brilliant genius".

Read my comments, 712  ovem.
Early on not so good, but i was learning fast.
Have u learnt anything?
I know more re the jfk saga than all members here combined.
Anyhow, show me where any one of my comments are flawed.