The LHO Escape -- Panic and Shock

[Martin Weidmann]

Kleins sent Oswald a better, longer more accurate rifle.

But let me put this in words that are more applicable to you and perhaps you will finally understand, say you ordered a home delivery 750ml bottle of that cheap alcohol that you are currently full of, and the bottle shop sends you a 1 litre bottle are you going to complain?

JohnM

Kleins sent Oswald a better, longer more accurate rifle.

Really? Show me the shipping document that proves they sent anything at all. Oh wait, it doesn't exist, except in your delusional mind.

[John Mytton]

Semantics. The truth is in the details which you so eagerly ignore.

Hidell ordered C20-T750 from department 358, which is a 36" MC rifle.

He did not order a 40" MC rifle.

You can't possibly be this Stupid?

The Department Number 358 isn't a specific Department within the Kliens warehouse but is a code which applied to every product ordered on that unique Kleins Advertisement, and is purely used to determine the origin of which magazine the coupon came from and is used for marketing. You really don't have a clue about how businesses work, do you!

Mr. BELIN. Can you just give us one or more of the magazines in which this coupon might have been taken?
Mr. WALDMAN. Well, this coupon was specifically taken from American Rifleman Magazine, issue of February 1963. It's identified by the department number which is shown as--now, if I can read this--shown as Department 358 on the coupon.

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The "Guns Magazine" had a department Number of 319 in Kleins Feb1963 ad. And interestingly Kleins ad in this magazine up until July63 was for the 36 inch model and thus proving once and for all, that Kleins didn't place any importance on the weight or length of the Carcano rifles that they stocked.

February 1963 Guns Magazine

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0263.pdf

April 1963 Guns Magazine

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0463.pdf

July 1963 Guns Magazine

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0763.pdf

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Therefore as can be seen by the plethora of various Department Numbers across any number of Kliens rifle ads, the only applicable number is the Order Number.

Oswald ordered C20-T750 and Oswald received C20-T750.



JohnM

[John Mytton]

Kleins sent Oswald a better, longer more accurate rifle.

Really? Show me the shipping document that proves they sent anything at all. Oh wait, it doesn't exist, except in your delusional mind.

We know Oswald received the rifle because he was photographed with it.



We know Oswald received the rifle because it contained his palm print and the FBI confirmed that Oswald had contact with Oswald's rifle.



We also have not one, not two but three types of fibers that match the three types of fibers contained in Oswald's arrest shirt, and the prohibitive probability is that they came from Oswald's shirt.



JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

You can't possibly be this Stupid?

The Department Number 358 isn't a specific Department within the Kliens warehouse but is a code which applied to every product ordered on that unique Kleins Advertisement, and is purely used to determine the origin of which magazine the coupon came from and is used for marketing. You really don't have a clue about how businesses work, do you!

Mr. BELIN. Can you just give us one or more of the magazines in which this coupon might have been taken?
Mr. WALDMAN. Well, this coupon was specifically taken from American Rifleman Magazine, issue of February 1963. It's identified by the department number which is shown as--now, if I can read this--shown as Department 358 on the coupon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "Guns Magazine" had a department Number of 319 in Kleins Feb1963 ad. And interestingly Kleins ad in this magazine up until July63 was for the 36 inch model and thus proving once and for all, that Kleins didn't place any importance on the weight or length of the Carcano rifles that they stocked.

February 1963 Guns Magazine

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0263.pdf

April 1963 Guns Magazine

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0463.pdf

July 1963 Guns Magazine

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0763.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore as can be seen by the plethora of various Department Numbers across any number of Kliens rifle ads, the only applicable number is the Order Number.

Oswald ordered C20-T750 and Oswald received C20-T750.



JohnM

You can't possibly be this Stupid?

No, but you can....

The Department Number 358 isn't a specific Department within the Kliens warehouse

Nobody said it was, except you of course...

but is a code which applied to every product ordered on that unique Kleins Advertisement,

You can try to muddy the water as much as you like, but the Department Number identified the magazine where the coupon came from. That, in turn, identified the exact item ordered.

So,  Ìf you believe that Oswald ordered anything at all, it was a 36" MC rifle as advertised in the February issue of American Rifleman Magazine. Period!

The "Guns Magazine" had a department Number of 319 in Kleins Feb1963 ad. And interestingly Kleins ad in this magazine up until July63 was for the 36 inch model and thus proving once and for all, that Kleins didn't place any importance on the weight or length of the Carcano rifles that they stocked.

Another selfserving argument that goes nowhere fast. It can just as easily be said that the ad proves that Klein's still was selling (and thus had in stock) 36" model MC rifles.

[Fergus O'Brien]

Well, well, well, Fergus O'bumhead, aren't you the pretentious, self entitled Twat.

Thanks Fergus, I sure will.

No you didn't.

My real name on this Forum is John Mytton and don't you forget it!

Not that I need your permission but thanks for the advice.

Sorry Fergus, but so far all your overreactions and hissy fits, tell quite the different story.

As always I will call a spade a spade and when I see poorly thought out, stupid and illogical attempts of rewriting History, I will very carefully explain why you are wrong and gently guide you to a place called reality.

JohnM

WOW lol , thank you for taking the time to reveal your true self to the many readers here who will see this . It is always fun to see an LN throw their toys out of their pram . For some reason when you speak the following quotes spring to mind , i wonder why ? lol .

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt"

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Mark Twain

[Martin Weidmann]

We know Oswald received the rifle because he was photographed with it.



We know Oswald received the rifle because it contained his palm print and the FBI confirmed that Oswald had contact with Oswald's rifle.



We also have not one, not two but three types of fibers that match the three types of fibers contained in Oswald's arrest shirt, and the prohibitive probability is that they came from Oswald's shirt.



JohnM

I asked you for a shipping document showing that a rifle was actually sent. In other words, I asked you for actual evidence, not some voodoo mambo jambo about why you think a rifle was sent.


We know Oswald received the rifle because he was photographed with it.

No, we don't know that. There is no way to identify the rifle Oswald is holding in the photograph. I've asked you before to show me an enlargement of the serial number on the rifle in the photo and you've failed to do so.

And, btw, care to explain how somebody holding a rifle in a photograph is proof of either ownership or that person having received that rifle from Klein's?


We know Oswald received the rifle because it contained his palm print and the FBI confirmed that Oswald had contact with Oswald's rifle.

More utter stupidity. The rifle did not contain Oswald's palm print. FBI supervisor of the latent fingerprint section, Sebastian Latona examined the rifle in the night following the assassination and from no prints on the rifle.

Mr. EISENBERG. We will get other evidence in the record at a subsequent time to show those were the prints of Oswald. Mr. Latona, you were saying that you had worked over that rifle by applying a gray powder to it. Did you develop any fingerprints?
Mr. LATONA. I was not successful in developing any prints at all on the weapon. I also had one of the firearms examiners dismantle the weapon and I processed the complete weapon, all parts, everything else. And no latent prints of value were developed.
Mr. EISENBERG. Does that include the clip?
Mr. LATONA. That included the clip, that included the bolt, it included the underside of the barrel which is covered by the stock.

But even if, for the sake of argument, Oswald print was indeed on the rifle, how in the world does that even begin to prove that he received the rifle? The jumps to conclusions you are making are larger than a jump to the moon.

We also have not one, not two but three types of fibers that match the three types of fibers contained in Oswald's arrest shirt, and the prohibitive probability is that they came from Oswald's shirt.

More BS... there is no such thing as the ability to "match" fibers. At best it can be said that fibers are simular, but I suspect you don't understand the difference between the two anyway.

Even Stombaugh couldn't say it with 100% certainty;

Mr. EISENBERG. On the basis of these examinations, did you draw a conclusion as to the probability of the cotton fibers found in the butt plate having come from the shirt pictured in Exhibit 673?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir; it was my opinion that these fibers could easily have come from the shirt.

"Could easily have come from the shirt" is a far cry from a 100% certain match!

Even worse, there has never been any evidence that the shirt Oswald was wearing when he was arrested is the same one he had on in the morning. That's again, nothing more than another selfserving assumption on your part.

So, the bottom line is that you've got nothing... nada, just a lot of conjecture based on misrepresented evidence. But, hey, what else is new with you?

[John Mytton]

So, the bottom line is that you've got nothing... nada,....

Thanks for proving me correct when I made the earlier statement "You can't possible be this Stupid".

But I will leave the Readers with this final piece of the puzzle.

In addition of the proof I presented of Lee Harvey Oswald's ownership of the rifle, the exact same rifle that Kleins sent to Oswald's PO box was discovered on the 6th floor of the place Oswald worked, and not forgetting that Oswald had no alibi at the time, was identified in the Sniper's nest Window, then Oswald fled from the scene within a few minutes of committing Murder, then went on to commit more Murder and when Oswald was arrested tried to commit even more Murder!



Case Closed!

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Thanks for proving me correct when I made the earlier statement "You can't possible be this Stupid".

But I will leave the Readers with this final piece of the puzzle.

In addition of the proof I presented of Lee Harvey Oswald's ownership of the rifle, the exact same rifle that Kleins sent to Oswald's PO box was discovered on the 6th floor of the place Oswald worked, and not forgetting that Oswald had no alibi at the time, was identified in the Sniper's nest Window, then Oswald fled from the scene within a few minutes of committing Murder, then went on to commit more Murder and when Oswald was arrested tried to commit even more Murder!



Case Closed!

JohnM

Thanks for proving me correct when I made the earlier statement "You can't possible be this Stupid".

Yes, you were correct when you said I couldn't possible be this stupid, because I am not.   

What exactly have you claimed in this post that you haven't claimed thousands of times before? Are you one of those fools who keeps repeating the same BS time after time and expects a different result?

It's probably futile, but I'll try to dumb it down for you... now sit down, take a deep breath, try to think logically and ignore all the propaganda stuff in your head. Here we go;

the exact same rifle that Kleins sent to Oswald's PO box was discovered on the 6th floor of the place Oswald worked

There is not a shred of conclusive evidence for this claim. Yes, the official narrative says that a rifle with serial number C2766 was found at the TSBD, and it probably was, but there is nothing, I repeat; nothing, that explains conclusively how it got there.

You can post Waldman 7 as often as you like, but the basic fact is that it is a photocopy of an internal document, allegedly found on a micro film confiscated by the FBI on 11/23/63.

There is no chain of custody for the micro film and it didn't surface again until Waldman testified before the WC, several months later. There is no way to authenticate the document. We don't know where it was and who handled it. The only person to "verify" the document, shown during his testimony, as an internal Klein's document, is Waldman, who held a supervisiory position and had no direct involvement in the sales of rifles.

Mr. WALDMAN. Vice president of Klein's Sporting Goods, Inc.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you been with Klein's?
Mr. WALDMAN. Approximately 12 years.
Mr. BELIN. And in your capacity as vice president, what are your general areas of work?
Mr. WALDMAN. Supervising office, warehouse, and retail operations, participating in the merchandising and advertising.

Waldman didn't - and wouldn't have been able to - confirm this was the exact same document that was on the micro film on 11/23/63.

There would have been an easy way to authenticate the document; just get the man who filled the order identify his handwriting and confirm that he filled the order and shipped the rifle. In this instance that would most likely have been Westra, but he is on record in the HSCA files that Klein's did not mount a scope on a 40" MC rifle. Go figure. Could that be the reason why the WC investigators never asked him?

and not forgetting that Oswald had no alibi at the time,

Who said he didn't have an alibi? Oswald was questioned four times before he was killed. We don't know what he said during those interviews, nor do we know what he could have said if he had lived.

was identified in the Sniper's nest Window,

No he wasn't

then Oswald fled from the scene within a few minutes of committing Murder, then went on to commit more Murder and when Oswald was arrested tried to commit even more Murder!

Yeah, that's what the official narrative fairytale tells us, but there is enough reasonable doubt that any of it actually happened. And before you ask, the reasonable doubt starts with the pathetic claim that he "fled from the scene" when we already know that he didn't. He probably did leave the building, but why did he stop to get a coke after allegedly coming down the stairs, when he could have continued walking through the office area on the second floor and out the door? Why did Marion Baker say that Oswald did not seem out of breath or nervous in any way when he confronted him and why did he offer his cab to an elderly lady if he was on the run.

As for him commiting another murder, you can't even provide a conclusive timeline that puts him at 10th street when Tippit was killed.

All this grandstanding might convince a newbie with limited knowledge of this case, but please don't try to sell this same old crap to me.