The LHO Escape -- Panic and Shock

[Mitch Todd]

Back in the day, this was done by mail order houses to differentiate between different ads.

I don't believe it. How would you even know this? Unless you can actually show evidence for this absurd claim, it's pretty obvious you just made this up. What reason would they have to differentiate between ads?

Because this ground has been trod over many, many times before over the decades. If you don't want to believe it, that's not my problem. But, really, I've actually had good acquaintance with people who perform what is now called "analytics" for pre-ecommerce catalog sales, and found out about this independently of my interest in the JFKA. Big ads in national publications weren't cheap, so the advertiser needed a way to know which ads brought in orders and which did not. This, in turn, influenced future advertising buys.

By law, the serial number of the firearm had to be carefully recorded when it was sold.

True, and not only that. There needed to be a registration of any weapon being sent in the mail. So, where is that paperwork for the rifle?

Nope. The only firearms that would need to be registered were/are NFA items like short-barreled (i.e. <16") rifles, machine guns, and silenced weapons. Carcanos did not fall under any of these categories.

But not for the ad's "department" number (assuming that's what it is). The department number, if that's indeed what it is, is randomly squeezed into some free space between two lines of text in another section of the order form. It's not associated with the line item representing the rifle.

More selfserving flawed made up nonsense.

If it was that flawed, you'd be able to point out the flaws in my statement.

[Martin Weidmann]

Because this ground has been trod over many, many times before over the decades. If you don't want to believe it, that's not my problem. But, really, I've actually had good acquaintance with people who perform what is now called "analytics" for pre-ecommerce catalog sales, and found out about this independently of my interest in the JFKA. Big ads in national publications weren't cheap, so the advertiser needed a way to know which ads brought in orders and which did not. This, in turn, influenced future advertising buys.

Nope. The only firearms that would need to be registered were/are NFA items like short-barreled (i.e. <16") rifles, machine guns, and silenced weapons. Carcanos did not fall under any of these categories.

If it was that flawed, you'd be able to point out the flaws in my statement.

Because this ground has been trod over many, many times before over the decades.

So you haven't got any evidence and are just making hollow statements... Got it

But, really, I've actually had good acquaintance with people who perform what is now called "analytics" for pre-ecommerce catalog sales, and found out about this independently of my interest in the JFKA. Big ads in national publications weren't cheap, so the advertiser needed a way to know which ads brought in orders and which did not. This, in turn, influenced future advertising buys.

True, but you have not demonstrated that this has anything to do with Klein's. You just assume it has, just like you assume that this was the only purpose of the Department number.

If it was that flawed, you'd be able to point out the flaws in my statement.

My past experiences with you make it clear that it would be futile.

[John Mytton]

Because this ground has been trod over many, many times before over the decades. If you don't want to believe it, that's not my problem. But, really, I've actually had good acquaintance with people who perform what is now called "analytics" for pre-ecommerce catalog sales, and found out about this independently of my interest in the JFKA. Big ads in national publications weren't cheap, so the advertiser needed a way to know which ads brought in orders and which did not. This, in turn, influenced future advertising buys.

That's right, Mitch. A Dept. No. was merely a unique identifier in the order coupon to identify what magazine the coupon originated from. Sometimes there would instead be a small-sized code in a corner of the order coupon and not in the coupon's mailing address, that did the same thing in terms of tracking.

I wonder if Klein's provided its own ads or simply relied on the art departments of the magazines. The larger magazines had substantial art departments and some would include "free" art for larger ad buyers. If magazines were providing the finished ads, Klein's needed only to sent pictures of new products, and changes in order nos. and prices. The ad department at gun magazines might have a collection of line art or photos of guns they could draw from, so Klein's wouldn't have to send pictures.

Klein's would have to approve a pre-publication printout of their ad. Klein's might only check the changes in order nos. and prices, and any new illustrations, particularly the more-expensive "featured" rifles. They were the bread-and-butter.

Yep!

If Kliens wanted each variation of Carcano to have a unique Item Number then they would have easily assigned a unique Item Number, one would be C20-T750 and the other would be C20-T751 or some close variation. Simple as that!

The very thought of the complications of having to cross reference hundreds of Item Numbers with each and every Dept Number across a multitude of Sporting Magazines is a CT's wet pipe dream.


Huge 1965, 160 pages sporting goods catalog: rifles and shotguns, gun cabinets, fishing equipment, archery equipment, golfing, etc. etc. Very good condition. Seller Inventory # 020504
https://www.abebooks.com/KLEINS-SPORTING-GOODS-CATALOG-NO-700/30586644077/bd

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Yep!

If Kliens wanted each variation of Carcano to have a unique Item Number then they would have easily assigned a unique Item Number, one would be C20-T750 and the other would be C20-T751 or some close variation. Simple as that!

The very thought of the complications of having to cross reference hundreds of Item Numbers with each and every Dept Number across a multitude of Sporting Magazines is a CT's wet pipe dream.


Huge 1965, 160 pages sporting goods catalog: rifles and shotguns, gun cabinets, fishing equipment, archery equipment, golfing, etc. etc. Very good condition. Seller Inventory # 020504
https://www.abebooks.com/KLEINS-SPORTING-GOODS-CATALOG-NO-700/30586644077/bd

JohnM

If Kliens wanted each variation of Carcano to have a unique Item Number then they would have easily assigned a unique Item Number, one would be C20-T750 and the other would be C20-T751 or some close variation. Simple as that!

Classic LN "logic"; "I think what Klein's should have done and since they didn't, my argument is correct". Hilarious!

Never considered the possibility that Klein's had the same Item Number for all Carcano rifles and pin pointed the one that was ordered by the Department number?

The very thought of the complications of having to cross reference hundreds of Item Numbers with each and every Dept Number across a multitude of Sporting Magazines is a CT's wet pipe dream.

Those complications would have also existed if they used the Department number only for the purpose of advertising analysis.

What is still lacking is a credible explanation why Klein's would also copy the Department number on the "Order blank" form, when, as the LNs insist, it has nothing to do with the actual order.

[John Mytton]

If Kliens wanted each variation of Carcano to have a unique Item Number then they would have easily assigned a unique Item Number, one would be C20-T750 and the other would be C20-T751 or some close variation. Simple as that!

Classic LN "logic"; "I think what Klein's should have done and since they didn't, my argument is correct". Hilarious!

Never considered the possibility that Klein's had the same Item Number for all Carcano rifles and pin pointed the one that was ordered by the Department number?

The very thought of the complications of having to cross reference hundreds of Item Numbers with each and every Dept Number across a multitude of Sporting Magazines is a CT's wet pipe dream.

Those complications would have also existed if they used the Department number only for the purpose of advertising analysis.

What is still lacking is a credible explanation why Klein's would also copy the Department number on the "Order blank" form, when, as the LNs insist, it has nothing to do with the actual order.

Give it up Martin, you are starting to look a desperate Fool!

JohnM

[Zeon Mason]

Was Oswald dumb enough to hand write the fake name A.Hidell, and so stupid as to have that fake name  attached to his own real name Oswald  P.O.box?

And so retarded as to carry his fake ID on day of the assassination , in his wallet , and drop his wallet at the Tippit scene( or where ever  it was eventually found).

Possible alternatives:

A. Oswald shot both JFK and Tiipit and was incredibly that stupid.
B. Oswald shot both JFK and Tippit and thought up this complicated idea of how he could leave evidence in such a way that he would have a good argument that he was set up, In this way , able to get the trial of fame, get exonerated, and write a book and so forth.
C. Oswald was set up before the assassination
D. Oswald was set up immediately after the assassination

If C. Then Oswald could have been partially involved indirectly , was not the JFK shooter but was  possibly the Walker shooter, and was paid to deliver a package to the TSBD. The MC rifle and revolver had been given to Oswald by conspirator handlers/  ex BOP CIA possibly whom Oswald may have worked with and may have been seen with ( Sylvia Odios apartment)

D. To set up Oswald after the fact would require post planting MC rifle on the 6th floor TSBD and getting a revolver into the hand of Oswald so that his hand would test positive. Would require making a bag and getting  one Oswald palm print on it. A paper trail, and fake ID and PO Box set up within a day or 2. Someone else whom was similar looking to Oswald had to have shot Tippit or else the set up of Oswald post JFK shooting starts  just after Oswald shot Tippit out of panic.

[Richard Smith]

Was Oswald dumb enough to hand write the fake name A.Hidell, and so stupid as to have that fake name  attached to his own real name Oswald  P.O.box?

And so retarded as to carry his fake ID on day of the assassination , in his wallet , and drop his wallet at the Tippit scene( or where ever  it was eventually found).

Possible alternatives:

A. Oswald shot both JFK and Tiipit and was incredibly that stupid.
B. Oswald shot both JFK and Tippit and thought up this complicated idea of how he could leave evidence in such a way that he would have a good argument that he was set up, In this way , able to get the trial of fame, get exonerated, and write a book and so forth.
C. Oswald was set up before the assassination
D. Oswald was set up immediately after the assassination

If C. Then Oswald could have been partially involved indirectly , was not the JFK shooter but was  possibly the Walker shooter, and was paid to deliver a package to the TSBD. The MC rifle and revolver had been given to Oswald by conspirator handlers/  ex BOP CIA possibly whom Oswald may have worked with and may have been seen with ( Sylvia Odios apartment)

D. To set up Oswald after the fact would require post planting MC rifle on the 6th floor TSBD and getting a revolver into the hand of Oswald so that his hand would test positive. Would require making a bag and getting  one Oswald palm print on it. A paper trail, and fake ID and PO Box set up within a day or 2. Someone else whom was similar looking to Oswald had to have shot Tippit or else the set up of Oswald post JFK shooting starts  just after Oswald shot Tippit out of panic.

There is so much evidence against him that we must conclude he is innocent. 

[Mitch Todd]

Because this ground has been trod over many, many times before over the decades.

So you haven't got any evidence and are just making hollow statements... Got it

You haven't shown us any evidence that your preferred interpretation is correct, so neither I nor anyone else owes you anything in return. So far, all you've done is make a baseless unsupported claim, then turn around and claim that you never said it.

But, really, I've actually had good acquaintance with people who perform what is now called "analytics" for pre-ecommerce catalog sales, and found out about this independently of my interest in the JFKA. Big ads in national publications weren't cheap, so the advertiser needed a way to know which ads brought in orders and which did not. This, in turn, influenced future advertising buys.

True, but you have not demonstrated that this has anything to do with Klein's. You just assume it has, just like you assume that this was the only purpose of the Department number.

Again, if the department code was used to designate a specific order item, it would show up in the ordered item in the order form with the order code, serial number, control number, etc. and not squeezed between two lines of unrelated text in a different section of the form.

If it was that flawed, you'd be able to point out the flaws in my statement.

My past experiences with you make it clear that it would be futile.

It's only futile for you because you have no argument to make.